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how to build a High Damage Hi Mobility AC. In ACVD?


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#1 uqe05x

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:38 AM

I need help in building an AC

What it needs-

-High Damage with TE, KE, and CE (must have one of all type of weapons)
- Highly Mobile
- High Defense
- Can take AC's Out in a couple hits

Full list of Schematics would be nice. :D

Thank You for reading! :lol:

(P.S.) Looking for new recruits in the Ghost Warriors, would love to get some help with a couple good members as well lol :lol:
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#2 Xer0

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

Ahh, well, everything in this game is a trade off really, so the type of AC you described above isn't a realistic design. Is there a certain play style you enjoy? Knowing how you play and what you find comfortable can go a long way to knowing what type of AC would suit you best.
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#3 Nescient

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

Light tank. Laser cannon/heat cannon/ke missile. You could also try an armor break pop shot build. Any of the 3 karasawa lasers with rifle/battle rifle. Light heavy biped with dual rifles, BR and LR is fun with missiles but on the slow side.

Close the door, put out the light.


#4 obliviondoll

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:47 PM

-High Damage with TE, KE, and CE (must have one of all type of weapons)

This means it has to be a heavyweight AC. Tank, quad, heavy biped, maybe HRJ. Just so they can carry all the high-damage weaponry to cover every damage type. You can run rifle/sniper with BR and plasma missiles on a midweight, but fighting more than one opponent, you're going to be running low on ammo for something.

- Highly Mobile

And this means it can't be a heavy AC, because they are, by definition, heavy and slow, and not highly mobile.

- High Defense

And this needs it to be heavy again, and prevents the midweight option because they compromise defenses for speed.

- Can take AC's Out in a couple hits

And this means it needs to be a blader/piler, which isn't viable on a heavy frame and is going to be suboptimal even on a midweight AC.

So basically, you want a lightweight AC that is also heavy. Good luck with that?
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#5 Maze

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:16 AM

For CE damage if you got the aim and the guts the five shot howitzers can do crippling damage in a couple of hits when power tuned, just be warned no lock on.

For KE there is no insane ranged damage arm weapons, most sniper rifles hit well above the meta defense points for KE making them a safe choice but they lack a rate of damage, for that i'd suggest some KE missiles to dish out the heavy ke damage for you.

TE damage um theres alot of builds that neglect te defense so sometimes pulse mgs are powerful but those are rare occasions, alot of plasma rifles are safe for close range attack runs, the karasawa is pretty powerful compared to most other laser rifles considering when the 40 shot model is used mid range it has very fast lock time and high muzzle velocity while keeping a low charge drain and charge time, you could use the 4 shot one but i'm gunna outright say it gives off a blue glow of death and takes long enough to charge that you just paint a huge target on your ac, if you wanna do some nice damage but keep things reasonable at mid to long range with lasers the twelve shot sawa works great when partnered with some high force missiles it easily causes a nice defense break allowing you to spike some serious damage from a safe range.

#6 Gripheenix

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:18 AM

As has been stated already, you're not going to find the AC you're looking for.

Essentially, you're looking for the perfect build. Something that moves like a lightweight (or at least a mid), and has defenses on par with a heavyweight, while at the same time capable of dealing effective damage from all three sources. This does not exist. And it never should.

If there was a perfect AC, this game would be even less balanced, and more bland than it already is. But that's a discussion for a different day...

But that doesn't mean you can't get a very well rounded AC that is effective in almost every situation. (That's why meta ACs even exist...) (So, yes, I'm basically going to suggest you use a meta AC...)

First, let's look at the frame. You want something that's relatively mobile, and still has good defenses, right? Well, the doors open to you here are entirely dependent on your own playing capability.

First question: Do you have good meter management? (If all of your ACs have Suzumushi and 309 boosters, then the answer is no.) If you can manage your energy well, then you can use something like Herz (lightest generator, with a decent capacity, but not so great output) with a high power booster. This, of course, will net you more speed than a high acceleration booster on a heavier generator could ever offer, at the cost of EN dependency, and a bit of control.

Which brings to light, the second question: Are you good at maneuvering? Do you spend most of your time in the middle of the air, high boosting like a maniac, or are you capable of knowing when to land, when to jump, and how to chain wall jumps? This ties into your meter management as well. The better you can control your AC, the less you will be set back by the looser control of high power boosters.

If you meet the requirements above, then you can use something a little heavier, like a heavy midweight, or a beefy quad, or even a heavyweight, and have a lot more freedom. If not, then you're options are going to be limited, and you will likely need to rely on a shield to cover for your weaker defenses. But, to be honest, you don't need 'high' defenses in this game. You just need defenses that are 'high enough'.

For KE, attempt for something about 1700, at the very minimal. 2000 is a lot better, but 1700 will at least save your ass from the faster firing rifles. CE, just aim for above 1100. This blocks out heat machine guns, to a degree. Trust me, you will not be able to block out the more common battle rifles, without either using a quad base, or making some serious sacrifices, so don't even try. TE defense should be above 1000 as well, to block out PMGs and un-amped pulse guns. Just with battle rifles, blocking out the common laser rifles is near impossible without making a sacrifice, so it's better to not bother.

These defense thresholds will not make you invincible, but they will allow you to live longer. If someone gets on you with effective, rapid fire weapons, you will die just as fast as you would if you got hit with a pile. Making them ineffective buys you at least a little breathing room. You can supplement a lack in defense by using things like shields and CIWS, but in the end, there is no better defense than good movement, and good positioning.

Now, to reach these thresholds, you can use a couple ACs. These are most easily met on a mid-biped, with a TE core, and CE arms and head. They can also be met on a couple heavy reverse-joint frames, and a number of quads, and some heavy bipeds. (Leaving out tanks, since you said you wanted mobility.) It really just depends on where you want to be with said mobility. The heavier you get, the more you will need to rely on high power boosters, and power setups that requite decent meter management and movement. Or, you can just slap on the old Suzunatsu infinite energy combo, and deal with the speeds you get. I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

Onto the weaponry!

So, you claim that you want high damage from all sources. This is an impractical request. Having one weapon of each damage type will severely limit your damage output overall. Instead, I would suggest using only two weapon types, that work well together.

There are weapons for each damage type that will always do effective damage, regardless of how high the defender's defenses are. Things like sniper rifles, a good chunk of the battle rifles, and some laser rifles (Karasawa family, mostly). Ready position weapons also fall into this category, but I won't suggest those, as they require you to sit still. There are also a couple weapons arms that fall into this, but they require you to sacrifice a lot of defense to use.

Some decent weapon combos would be something like dual snipers with dual laser rifles, or dual laser rifles with battle rifles. What's actually very common is dual Strekozas (2773 damage) with dual pulse guns, and some manner of KE missile in the shoulder. The Streks tear through everything, as it's virtually impossible to block that high of CE damage without a shield, and the pulse guns decimate anything fast, with low TE defense, while the missiles are just icing on the cake in terms of damage.

Another idea would be to use things that may be ineffective, but have high impact, to lower defenses. (In case you weren't aware, when that red box that says 'Stagger' pops up on your screen, it means you've been hit with something that has higher impact than your recoil resistance stat, which lowers all your defenses for a short amount of time. This is different from a 'hard stagger', which causes your AC to literally stagger, and stop moving. Related to, but different.) Things like high speed missiles, shotguns, or even some laser rifles, might be enough to drop the defenses on that heavy with 1500 KE defense, to 1350, allowing your 1400 damage rifle to do effective damage for a few seconds. If used correctly, this opens up a lot more avenues as to what some may consider 'high damage output'.

And then there's ineffective damage... Trust me, thanks to the new defense/damage algorithms in Verdict Day (compared to ACV), not even the heaviest of tanks is safe from heat machine guns, or gats. It might take a little longer, and requires you to have good positioning and/or movement, but it is most certainly possible for you to kill a 45000AP tank, that has 2000 KE defense, with a pair of gats that do 600 damage.

In the end, there is no 'perfect' AC. But there are plenty that do well in almost every situation, and are also very easy to handle. There's a reason why a vast majority use these 'meta-ACs', even if they don't realize that they are. The better grip you have on the game, as a whole, the higher your skill level rises, the less you will need to depend on playing the metagame. But that's all up to you, and how you want to play.

- - -

(P.S.) Looking for new recruits in the Ghost Warriors, would love to get some help with a couple good members as well lol :lol:


P.S.

I think you've advertised your team in every post you've made on this forum, thus far... Don't think of this as me being mean, but you may not want to do that in future posts. There's a place for advertising your team already, and I see you've done just that. Fact of the matter is, most people on this forum are already on a team that they like. Newcomers who are looking for a team will automatically look at the recruitment board first, so they'll see that, before they see it advertised anywhere else. There's really no need to be so redundant.

(Cool things happen when you click on Megaman's face.)

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#7 rogan

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:25 AM

Fast with solid defenses and the ability to take out opposing ACs in a few hits?

No problem:
047/ekhazar/063/soluh
Judith/judith
Aaliyah/lahire/ortega/linstant

Weapon wise you'll want something like:
Bigsioux/bismut- oh wait...

Reference previous posts. Its not possible to build an AC within the parameters you've given in ACVD.
Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#8 dikhed7

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:36 AM

Fast with solid defenses and the ability to take out opposing ACs in a few hits?

No problem:
047/ekhazar/063/soluh
Judith/judith
Aaliyah/lahire/ortega/linstant

Weapon wise you'll want something like:
Bigsioux/bismut- oh wait...

Reference previous posts. Its not possible to build an AC within the parameters you've given in ACVD.

Kinda surprised a FA AC wasn't posted sooner...

Was gonna respond to Disso's post, but he's edited it so nvm


#9 uqe05x

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:01 PM

As has been stated already, you're not going to find the AC you're looking for.

Essentially, you're looking for the perfect build. Something that moves like a lightweight (or at least a mid), and has defenses on par with a heavyweight, while at the same time capable of dealing effective damage from all three sources. This does not exist. And it never should.

If there was a perfect AC, this game would be even less balanced, and more bland than it already is. But that's a discussion for a different day...

But that doesn't mean you can't get a very well rounded AC that is effective in almost every situation. (That's why meta ACs even exist...) (So, yes, I'm basically going to suggest you use a meta AC...)

First, let's look at the frame. You want something that's relatively mobile, and still has good defenses, right? Well, the doors open to you here are entirely dependent on your own playing capability.

First question: Do you have good meter management? (If all of your ACs have Suzumushi and 309 boosters, then the answer is no.) If you can manage your energy well, then you can use something like Herz (lightest generator, with a decent capacity, but not so great output) with a high power booster. This, of course, will net you more speed than a high acceleration booster on a heavier generator could ever offer, at the cost of EN dependency, and a bit of control.

Which brings to light, the second question: Are you good at maneuvering? Do you spend most of your time in the middle of the air, high boosting like a maniac, or are you capable of knowing when to land, when to jump, and how to chain wall jumps? This ties into your meter management as well. The better you can control your AC, the less you will be set back by the looser control of high power boosters.

If you meet the requirements above, then you can use something a little heavier, like a heavy midweight, or a beefy quad, or even a heavyweight, and have a lot more freedom. If not, then you're options are going to be limited, and you will likely need to rely on a shield to cover for your weaker defenses. But, to be honest, you don't need 'high' defenses in this game. You just need defenses that are 'high enough'.

For KE, attempt for something about 1700, at the very minimal. 2000 is a lot better, but 1700 will at least save your ass from the faster firing rifles. CE, just aim for above 1100. This blocks out heat machine guns, to a degree. Trust me, you will not be able to block out the more common battle rifles, without either using a quad base, or making some serious sacrifices, so don't even try. TE defense should be above 1000 as well, to block out PMGs and un-amped pulse guns. Just with battle rifles, blocking out the common laser rifles is near impossible without making a sacrifice, so it's better to not bother.

These defense thresholds will not make you invincible, but they will allow you to live longer. If someone gets on you with effective, rapid fire weapons, you will die just as fast as you would if you got hit with a pile. Making them ineffective buys you at least a little breathing room. You can supplement a lack in defense by using things like shields and CIWS, but in the end, there is no better defense than good movement, and good positioning.

Now, to reach these thresholds, you can use a couple ACs. These are most easily met on a mid-biped, with a TE core, and CE arms and head. They can also be met on a couple heavy reverse-joint frames, and a number of quads, and some heavy bipeds. (Leaving out tanks, since you said you wanted mobility.) It really just depends on where you want to be with said mobility. The heavier you get, the more you will need to rely on high power boosters, and power setups that requite decent meter management and movement. Or, you can just slap on the old Suzunatsu infinite energy combo, and deal with the speeds you get. I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

Onto the weaponry!

So, you claim that you want high damage from all sources. This is an impractical request. Having one weapon of each damage type will severely limit your damage output overall. Instead, I would suggest using only two weapon types, that work well together.

There are weapons for each damage type that will always do effective damage, regardless of how high the defender's defenses are. Things like sniper rifles, a good chunk of the battle rifles, and some laser rifles (Karasawa family, mostly). Ready position weapons also fall into this category, but I won't suggest those, as they require you to sit still. There are also a couple weapons arms that fall into this, but they require you to sacrifice a lot of defense to use.

Some decent weapon combos would be something like dual snipers with dual laser rifles, or dual laser rifles with battle rifles. What's actually very common is dual Strekozas (2773 damage) with dual pulse guns, and some manner of KE missile in the shoulder. The Streks tear through everything, as it's virtually impossible to block that high of CE damage without a shield, and the pulse guns decimate anything fast, with low TE defense, while the missiles are just icing on the cake in terms of damage.

Another idea would be to use things that may be ineffective, but have high impact, to lower defenses. (In case you weren't aware, when that red box that says 'Stagger' pops up on your screen, it means you've been hit with something that has higher impact than your recoil resistance stat, which lowers all your defenses for a short amount of time. This is different from a 'hard stagger', which causes your AC to literally stagger, and stop moving. Related to, but different.) Things like high speed missiles, shotguns, or even some laser rifles, might be enough to drop the defenses on that heavy with 1500 KE defense, to 1350, allowing your 1400 damage rifle to do effective damage for a few seconds. If used correctly, this opens up a lot more avenues as to what some may consider 'high damage output'.

And then there's ineffective damage... Trust me, thanks to the new defense/damage algorithms in Verdict Day (compared to ACV), not even the heaviest of tanks is safe from heat machine guns, or gats. It might take a little longer, and requires you to have good positioning and/or movement, but it is most certainly possible for you to kill a 45000AP tank, that has 2000 KE defense, with a pair of gats that do 600 damage.

In the end, there is no 'perfect' AC. But there are plenty that do well in almost every situation, and are also very easy to handle. There's a reason why a vast majority use these 'meta-ACs', even if they don't realize that they are. The better grip you have on the game, as a whole, the higher your skill level rises, the less you will need to depend on playing the metagame. But that's all up to you, and how you want to play.

- - -

(P.S.) Looking for new recruits in the Ghost Warriors, would love to get some help with a couple good members as well lol :lol:


P.S.

I think you've advertised your team in every post you've made on this forum, thus far... Don't think of this as me being mean, but you may not want to do that in future posts. There's a place for advertising your team already, and I see you've done just that. Fact of the matter is, most people on this forum are already on a team that they like. Newcomers who are looking for a team will automatically look at the recruitment board first, so they'll see that, before they see it advertised anywhere else. There's really no need to be so redundant.



Thanks for the thought in all. I appreciate it, but telling me what to advertise is my buisness. Not to me mean? dude please. Not to correct you but it's my progrogative. Thanks anyway
PSN ID: JAMESBUND

Armored Core Verdict Day: Team/ Clan: Ghost Warriors

AC Pilot Name: Jin Starlin [00]

#10 uqe05x

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:04 PM

-High Damage with TE, KE, and CE (must have one of all type of weapons)

This means it has to be a heavyweight AC. Tank, quad, heavy biped, maybe HRJ. Just so they can carry all the high-damage weaponry to cover every damage type. You can run rifle/sniper with BR and plasma missiles on a midweight, but fighting more than one opponent, you're going to be running low on ammo for something.

- Highly Mobile

And this means it can't be a heavy AC, because they are, by definition, heavy and slow, and not highly mobile.

- High Defense

And this needs it to be heavy again, and prevents the midweight option because they compromise defenses for speed.

- Can take AC's Out in a couple hits

And this means it needs to be a blader/piler, which isn't viable on a heavy frame and is going to be suboptimal even on a midweight AC.

So basically, you want a lightweight AC that is also heavy. Good luck with that?


Uh... Thanks for posting?
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#11 uqe05x

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:06 PM

I thank you all for giving me advise. Imma see what I can do :D
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#12 HyperVial

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:57 AM

Just don't use the Argane mdl. 2 and you should be fine ;)

I wonder what will happen when the pilers see this thread.


#13 Berlioz

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:05 AM

Just get a piledriver with a 500 range FCS, and you can 1 shot anything from basically anywhere in the map, just make sure you wait for the lock on. Use sub computers to lock on faster.
You can also use shields to increase kick range and add ultimate weapon to increase damage

All TE heavy with burya takes care of defense and high mobility


Or if you are feeling pro
Sawarabi burya
Pilebladekumo
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#14 nice

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

go medium biped with a sniper rifle on one arm, strekoza on the other, use shotgun-pulse gun on the back, with subs in the shoulders, you can modify the defense to what you want and is is generally mobile, does varying from 5k-8k-2k in damage per dual shot and is mobile

#15 uqe05x

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

go medium biped with a sniper rifle on one arm, strekoza on the other, use shotgun-pulse gun on the back, with subs in the shoulders, you can modify the defense to what you want and is is generally mobile, does varying from 5k-8k-2k in damage per dual shot and is mobile



I like this set up imma make it tonight thanks to all of you
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Armored Core Verdict Day: Team/ Clan: Ghost Warriors

AC Pilot Name: Jin Starlin [00]

#16 Nescient

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:16 AM

go medium biped with a sniper rifle on one arm, strekoza on the other, use shotgun-pulse gun on the back, with subs in the shoulders, you can modify the defense to what you want and is is generally mobile, does varying from 5k-8k-2k in damage per dual shot and is mobile


dual strek/pulsegun would be a quicker killing option. Either way that AC gets owned by laser rifles unless it has tons of cover to work with. I really dislike the way SR/BR plays. You lose too much DPS and/or forfeit a snipers energy advantage.

Close the door, put out the light.


#17 Not-Hunter

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

I'd use Rifle/BR over SR/BR.

And using Dual-dual BR and PG means that you get walled by fort quads with a shield, unless you bring amps, but that's a very heavy loadout for an AC that needs to close distance to do damage.

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#18 Berlioz

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:27 PM

I'd use Rifle/BR over SR/BR.

And using Dual-dual BR and PG means that you get walled by fort quads with a shield, unless you bring amps, but that's a very heavy loadout for an AC that needs to close distance to do damage.


I don't know of any quad that blocks streks and pulseguns.
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#19 Nescient

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

I'd use Rifle/BR over SR/BR.

And using Dual-dual BR and PG means that you get walled by fort quads with a shield, unless you bring amps, but that's a very heavy loadout for an AC that needs to close distance to do damage.


If it does its either extremely heavy or lacking in ke defense. Purge the BRs abuse turning and chip it to death with the pulse guns or let a team mate handle it. Heavy quads are easy pickings for a tank or melee build. And besides, you've also got UVFs...

Close the door, put out the light.


#20 Not-Hunter

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

with a shield

Did quads stop carrying TE shields or something?

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