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#1 Sash

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 07:20 PM

As expected, there is much text below.

 

Included here are my most premier UNACs. Often categorized under the umbrella of "Sash Pack DLC", these UNACs are an infrequent complimentary bonus for those select members of the ever-elusive Sash Pack. As per the usual, the builds are pretty metagamey or otherwise are tuned to take advantage of specific deficiencies in the opposition. Anyways, I'll be getting right into the guts of the topic.

 

Disclaimer, I only have the basic UNAC DLC, which means that there will only ever be 3 UNACs + 1 Player (me).

 

The goons (goonsies):

 

Alabaster ~ DBR KE HBP

Spoiler

 

Sarcomite ~ DBR Light Tetra

Spoiler

 

Wonderland ~ Rushdown Tank + SSS Support

Spoiler

 

Ziggurat ~ Kocho Flame D-3BR HBP

Spoiler

 

 

General

Spoiler

 

Remarks

Spoiler

 

Ah, and sorry about not having more of these. I rifled through my garage and took note that most of the UNACs in there were outdated or ineffective when compared to my recent batch of goons.

 

I intend to rebuild my Coil Nova Impale series, albeit with a far less motley assortment of gear.

 

 

To be created/rebuilt:

 

Coil ~ Hyper-Offensive Unit

Spoiler

 

Nova ~ Staple/Fortress Quad

Spoiler

 

Impale ~ Sawa Quad

Spoiler

 

Marauder Undine ~ Cannon Tank

Spoiler

 

Shaddai Undine ~ Anti-Quad Unit

Spoiler

Monolith ~ Fire Support Unit

Spoiler


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#2 rogan

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 09:01 PM

UNAC BR gank squad is UNAC BR gank squad. Fave melts a lot of stuff. I've killed things up to 1300 TE using fave alone. Fave + VTFs + BR probably kills just about anything.

 

I dunno about the tank's chip set. I've seen and tried Claes Angelo's tank chipset from the videos posted on youtube, has some weaknesses I really don't like. Are you using the exact same one or did you tweak it?


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#3 Sash

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 10:04 PM

Yeah I figured I had the loadout pretty well sorted.

 

The chipset has been modified to favor more close range combat and glide boost maneuvers. The tank will almost without fail glide boost right up to the enemy and either kick them or scare the hell out of them. I also tried my best to give it some counter-kicking performance.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what does your ideal chipset for a tank look like? I'm all for sharing information.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#4 rogan

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 06:57 AM

Yeah I figured I had the loadout pretty well sorted.

 

The chipset has been modified to favor more close range combat and glide boost maneuvers. The tank will almost without fail glide boost right up to the enemy and either kick them or scare the hell out of them. I also tried my best to give it some counter-kicking performance.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what does your ideal chipset for a tank look like? I'm all for sharing information.

I take it that you aren't running the same chip set that Anglol used. 

 

I'm so not posting an entire chip set, that takes FOREVER. You'd also have to be more specific, I program tanks differently based on turning, weapons and lock range.


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#5 Sash

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 04:06 PM

You'd also have to be more specific, I program tanks differently based on turning, weapons and lock range.

 

Well, in this case, what chip traits would you try to emphasize if we were working on a UNAC Tank with say: 525 turning, running typical heat cannon and autocannon, and carrying Otty on Roland.

(Just trying to give you some variables to work with.)

 

Ah, and yes, Angelo's Robosash is not equivalent to my Robosash, though granted I have a few chips in common with his but as you say Rogan it would take forever to post.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#6 rogan

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 06:37 PM

Otty on roland gives you 337 lock range if you wanted the UNAC to fight at the very limit of its targeting ability. I would change the FCS for more EN and set its max combat range to 220 at the most. (I've never gotten good HEAT cannon hits outside of 100, the 220 range is just to give it some auto cannon spam)

 

Movement chips would be set to 80m because thats where the weapon set it most effective. I would probably run a probability based movement chip set with three different trees each having an interval of 10-15, with something like 40/40/30 for probability. DO NOT USE A "RANGE" CHIP. I would stick with zig-zag chips and or move forward/circle round chips.

 

Weapon chips would be all about spamming dem weapons. The UNACs entire purpose is to put rounds down range, its weapons do not lend themselves to accuracy.

 

Dodge chips would be very minimal because I want the UNAC to maintain combat range and spam bullets.

 

Special movement would probably end up with a glideboost, high boost, turning chip set with a very short update interval. glideboost would have a range set to something like 80, highboost at 50 and a mid range turning chip. I would also be inclined to test out a probability chipset with the same special movement chips but with more aggressive settings.

 

the detection, special action and targeting would all be copy-pasted from my "outline" tank UNAC.


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#7 Leos Klein

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 05:25 AM

Alabaster:

 

I'd like to know how you deal with lock time issues. Are you using accuracy spec BRs? Otherwise, you have two guns that are at what, 130+ lock time, and an FCS with 75. This is the equivalent of a 300 base lock on time with the the 200 range (Glance in ACV I think) FCS. Since VTF lock on time is already so short, and unless you're using accuracy-spec BRs (a legitimate option, I'm running one built around that now) I don't see the benefit of that slightly wider lock zone and 50 extra range. You'd have faster lockon times using sniper rifles on a slightly faster FCS, and that's worrying.

 

I know that if you can get them to hold a lock on the enemy, you're good, but every time they have to evade, they'll lose lock. That's a bad situation to put a UNAC in.

 

Usually I'd pair plasma missiles with BRs, to avoid being hosed by quads or HRJs and to offset the high weight that BRs have, but VTFs are always a safe choice.

 

One other comment on VTF missiles, I've found that sometimes UNACs will fire them into machinegun fire, causing them to explode in their face. Does this happen with you?

 

Sarcomite: 

 

Same concern about lock time, aggravated by the (I think) slower turning rate. I think the idea of doing a 3BR deterrent is good enough, most people will avoid BRs on a quad regardless of the defense values and just assume they'll be less effective. As in, this is a very counter-metagame approach, forcing UNACs who are using 2200 damage BRs (assume they're set to fire at anything under 2200 CE or so) to use less effective weapons, and forcing humans to give up on their BRs effective or not by not taking the time to check defense values. I don't know if this actually happens, but it's an idea.

 

Wonderland:

 

I have little experience with tanks. My only thought is to drop the autocannon for a high-muzzle velocity cannon, so you can possibly stunlock with the heat  cannon, but that would wreck your lock times. So I'm just going to leave this one alone.

 

Ziggurat: 

 

This AC is screaming to have high speed missiles (or better yet, Jellyfish) put on it.

 

 

 

 

 

All in all, if these were my UNACs, I'd probably swap the VTFs for Jellyfish on the ACs with 3BR, change the FCS to a high speed lock-on one, and swap the pulse guns for sniper rifles (which are now viable thanks to the high speed lock on) for anti-tank maneuvers. Lightweights never bothered me, probably because I run alongside with Karasawa and the highest damage rifle, which sorta tends to stop most LWs in their tracks. Tank kickers are what really scare me, Rogan

 

I'd also run a laser cannon/pulse cannon on the tank, and maybe swap one of the HWBP's BRs for regular rifles just to cover a wider range of defense values.



#8 rogan

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 08:10 AM

There is a simple solution for firing VTFs into MGs, Set the UNAC to boost hop and have them constantly circling the target.  If done right the UNAC should fire the VTFs while moving either sideways or down so they take minimal damage from having them explode in their face if any. Works fantastically with HRJs.

 

I think the entire idea with the FCS vs BR choice is that the tank substacks for the entire team and vs heavy stuff, like other tanks, the UNACs really don't care if they blue lock BRs or not. I personally like Yasa FCS because of less EN drain and it means I don't need to sub stack, but E28 does work if you fiddle with the attack computation stats and only have it using BRs vs fat targets.

 

Im trying to make a UNAC use accuracy BRs but its kinda disappointing results overall. 


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#9 Leos Klein

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 03:46 PM

Yeah, I do that already, but wanted to know if that's something other people run into.

 

Still, basing the effectiveness of a squad's lockon off of a single 

 

 

My UNAC is using 550ish muzzle velocity 1900 damage BRs. The premise is, if someone has over 1700 CE defense, then they usually also have over 2000 because little is gained metagame wise, since quads and RJs hit 1700 no problem, but it takes compromises for anything else to. If you're not going to buff most power spec BRs, then it isn't worth losing 300KE for that extra 300CE. That sort of thinking leaves an open hole in most people's defenses where they have sub-1500 CE, and just say "I'll stay out of BR range since they have slow muzzle velocity"

 

Rather than being a horrible inaccurate 3BR build that will get itself killed in close quarters, it's a close-mid BR build that will get 80% accuracy rapid firing BRs against people with under 1700 CE or so.

 

I take the approach of "there is never a point where the UNAC should not be firing when seeing an enemy" and try to match muzzle velocity and lock time to amp up accuracy without decreasing firing rate, at the expense of some damage or lock range.



#10 Sash

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 11:12 PM

UNAC Talk

 

Thank you most kindly for that, Rogan.

 

UNAC Talk

 

RE: Alabaster and Sarcomite,

 

I honestly haven't run into any Lock Time issues. Most literally anything that easily dodges Strekozas will be tagged by the PMG or forced into sustained evasive action by a good clustering of VTFs from two angles. It certainly isn't the most impressive way to go about creating a UNAC squad, but in my experience at least there have not been any glaring issues that I've ran into when running the Strek builds. Streks generally have all the coverage in the world, so as an added bonus I don't really need to worry about what I mark so long as it is within striking distance. Further, most matchups I run into are quite easy for UNACs to blue-lock against. That's probably the primary reason I haven't had problems with Lock Time.

 

Also, as Rogan mentioned, I'm running some circling and left-right dodging chips that cause the VTFs to get some distance from the UNAC shortly after they're fired. Couple that with a penchant for glide boosting in a zig-zag fashion, and I don't believe there's much of an issue with the VTFs blowing up prematurely. However, I will say that I've been VTF'd more times in the back by my own UNACs than by the enemy in recent times. It has driven me to just do some divide and conquer strats to stay away from my UNACs and just let them do their jobs while I pick off whatever looks especially threatening.

 

I may give Yasakani a try, just because I normally run that on my Aoi.2 build and it works great in my case.

 

Ah, and of course Plasma Missiles would be quite nice, but considering I have VTFs and Fave on my two offensive synergy UNACs, Quads and HRJs present very little problem for me. If I really need to retool my goons between sorties, Plasma Missiles are definitely in the running alongside High Speeds.

 

RE: Wonderland,

 

This thing is a monster. Despite that, I can probably run a Dual Subcomp version or something and pull off the combo you mentioned. That might be more in line with what Rogan would attempt, so I think I might defer to his opinion on that. Even then, I really like Heat Cannon // Auto for the matchup against Light Quads since they're about as popular over here as heavyweights. When I can keep Wonderland in a LQ's face, I typically don't have to worry about it for the rest of the fight unless I haven't taken down the enemy LM-user (if they carry it).

 

RE: Ziggurat,

 

Yeah that thing loves HSM but I would prefer that I be the one to carry them since I can be absolutely sure that I get the correct gank/glomp approach. When VTFs don't cut it, though, I grab all the HSM I can haha! Jellyfish are an interesting idea. I do kinda enjoy Jellies when I run them, but they never really give me the same up-front damage output of HSM or VTF. I suppose that I can substitute Sarcomite's shoulders for Jellies and run Ziggy with Jellies as well just to see how far they can go.

 

 

 

In general, it may be prudent to say that the meta I'm dealing with is fatty-reliant, so a Strekoza gangbang with some Subs for backup has few natural predators - at least in this case. Of course, I'm also a member of the squad, and I'm very willing to put myself in harms way to drop a hard counter to the rest of my squad. I'm confident that they can take care of themselves if I'm forced out of combat.

 

I'll be sure to check my movement chips and weapon/detection chips to give you guys some more information if you're curious about the Otty shenanigans. I remember I actually had a rationale behind using it the first time but I think I forgot. If anything, it was probably because of LIGHTWEIGHTS.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#11 rogan

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:12 AM

 LIGHTWEIGHTS.

?

 

You seem to have a serious fear of lightweights. Frankly its an unreasonable one. You realize that your squad runs multiple Fave PMGs and Wide angel FCS, any close quarters LW is going to be swiftly destroyed.

 

What your squad does have an issue with are LW snipers who can happily kite the heavy builds out all day long while you can do little about it. On an invasion, if you die and the opposing team has one of those annoying 500 range snipers left you lose. KE shields can prevent the sniper from inflicting damage, but they don't need to. Grab subtargets and run, UNACs will never catch them.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#12 Sash

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 02:44 PM

You seem to have a serious fear of lightweights. Frankly its an unreasonable one. You realize that your squad runs multiple Fave PMGs and Wide angel FCS, any close quarters LW is going to be swiftly destroyed.

 

Not a fear, an overemphasized distaste. Unreasonable in what sense? LWs combine nearly every aspect of this game that I hate on a single AC - capable of running all of the things I hate, all on the same build, with the added bonus of being aggravating to hit even under the simplest of circumstances. My squad runs multiple Faves on Otty to pretty much trivialize LWs as much as possible.

 

I think it is less about the actual difficulty of fighting lightweights or their actually being lethal, but more about my level of aggravation in having to combat them. I'm told I continue to rant about an enemy LW long after he's been eliminated and blame all my problems on them, despite only having lost maybe 10k to Zlatkos or Howies. It could also be that my teammates rarely exhibit any method of competently dealing with LWs, so I get pissed off that they've been heavily damaged or killed by something that really shouldn't be able to get away with something of that sort.

 

Either way about it, I really don't like LIGHTWEIGHTS. If I could liken them to anything, it would be like fighting a projectile-spamming player in a fighting game. Their strategy is easy to defeat but absolutely boring to fight against and it often takes way longer than it should have to deal with them. Plus if you make a mistake you might end up with a very large disadvantage that will cripple your offensive abilities for the rest of the match. I hate getting chipped out, both in AC and in fighters.

 

What your squad does have an issue with are LW snipers who can happily kite the heavy builds out all day long while you can do little about it. On an invasion, if you die and the opposing team has one of those annoying 500 range snipers left you lose. KE shields can prevent the sniper from inflicting damage, but they don't need to. Grab subtargets and run, UNACs will never catch them.

 

This is true. I keep a pretty good catalog of potential enemy LW snipers, and if I expect one to be in play in an upcoming match, I'm probably on their ass with a KE Shield and a full Sonne to burn in pursuit. My UNACs are tooled to chase and spray with the Fave if they can, but usually it falls to me to hit a Karasawa or chain of HSMs. Again, the potential for cheesiness contributes to my distaste for LWs.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#13 Sash

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 10:39 AM

Coming Soon:

 

Robosash MK.2 - Offensive CQB Pulse Cannon Tank

 

Splinterdasher - General Use // Anti-Quad Autocannon Tank

 

Domine - Light Sawa Quad

 

Novum - Heavy Sawa Quad

 

Hydrafex - Ultra-Heavy Anti-Armor Tank // Damage Sponge

 

Sarcomite-INOSISI Hybrid - Experimental CQB Light Quad


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#14 rogan

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:36 PM

my stuffs in bold

Coming Soon:

 

Robosash MK.2 - Offensive CQB Pulse Cannon Tank

*been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Equip: auto + pulse cannon + meduim missiles and watch it steamroll anything not named another tank inside of 130 meters.

 

Splinterdasher - General Use // Anti-Quad Autocannon Tank

*kinda want to see how this is set up, i run ACT UNACs regularly. Simple, but every effective.

 

Domine - Light Sawa Quad
*Yea... these. Be original and make one with dual sawas, or better yet dual X00s!

 

Novum - Heavy Sawa Quad

*Actually, I really am interested in this one. I can't get a fortress quad that I like or performs in a manner i find passible without using dual gats + missiles + dual shield.

 

Hydrafex - Ultra-Heavy Anti-Armor Tank // Damage Sponge

*Heavy tank UNAC. Welp good luck.

 

Sarcomite-INOSISI Hybrid - Experimental CQB Light Quad

*Sarcomite is already a UNAC... I'm not really sure what you are going to change to make it more effective. (unless you run sawas on it)

 

Also: estimated delivery date? There are still no water elementals in your house btw.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#15 Sash

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:42 PM

I've been busy friend D: I wanna fill out this and my house this weekend. I know I've waited far too long, I just never got around to it when the weekend turned up.

 

Uhh, anyhow, guess I'll respond to the rest.

 

RE Robosash - Equips PC // HC + HSM or Spreads. It's uncouth and less effective but nonetheless dirty and dangerous.

 

RE Splinterdasher - I'll maybe try and explain tunes a bit. All my tanks have very similar movement patterns. Splinterdasher is ironically my least favorite because it almost always eats shit and dies.

 

RE Domine - Yuppo, it's pretty lame. Tried Dual Sawa, but it rarely hit anything that was paying attention to it. There were a few times where lightweight players walked into a cross-map sawa shot, somehow.

 

RE Novum - The frame just blocks pulse guns and is almost identical to Domine. 

 

RE Hydrafex - Designed to tell other tanks to go fuck off. Typically, my own tank will do just fine so long as it isn't barrel-stuffed by an SCT UNAC. This AC was made to take a lot of focus-fire and stunlock things that think they can roll up on it.

 

RE Sarcomite upgrade - It behaves differently and performs better than the original despite changing its weapons from podenkas to 3brs and it's vtfs to jellyfishes. Basically I crossbred Sarcomite with the JP INOSISI UNAC and got this. I just wish it could run Flash Rockets too, but that's perhaps the next project - likely involving Alabaster. Also one of the few UNACs I've heard of where someone has outright admitted that they couldn't track it in a 4v4.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#16 rogan

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 07:37 PM

my stuff Bold again...

I've been busy friend D: I wanna fill out this and my house this weekend. I know I've waited far too long, I just never got around to it when the weekend turned up.

 

Uhh, anyhow, guess I'll respond to the rest.

 

RE Robosash - Equips PC // HC + HSM or Spreads. It's uncouth and less effective but nonetheless dirty and dangerous.

 

RE Splinterdasher - I'll maybe try and explain tunes a bit. All my tanks have very similar movement patterns. Splinterdasher is ironically my least favorite because it almost always eats shit and dies.

huh, i wonder what im doing differently. These things rekt people for me.

 

RE Domine - Yuppo, it's pretty lame. Tried Dual Sawa, but it rarely hit anything that was paying attention to it. There were a few times where lightweight players walked into a cross-map sawa shot, somehow.

ok, fine. be boring and effective.

 

RE Novum - The frame just blocks pulse guns and is almost identical to Domine. 

so its not running a heavy frame then? unfortunate this is.

 

RE Hydrafex - Designed to tell other tanks to go fuck off. Typically, my own tank will do just fine so long as it isn't barrel-stuffed by an SCT UNAC. This AC was made to take a lot of focus-fire and stunlock things that think they can roll up on it.
I hope to see dual knockers... (seriously, build a tunnel UNAC with those: hilarity ensues.)

 

RE Sarcomite upgrade - It behaves differently and performs better than the original despite changing its weapons from podenkas to 3brs and it's vtfs to jellyfishes. Basically I crossbred Sarcomite with the JP INOSISI UNAC and got this. I just wish it could run Flash Rockets too, but that's perhaps the next project - likely involving Alabaster. Also one of the few UNACs I've heard of where someone has outright admitted that they couldn't track it in a 4v4.
I've experimented a lot with flash rocket UNACs and they are very effective. They just tend to force the UNAC to run close quarters weapons which makes it difficult for the UNAC to keep up with the permaglide meta. Which ultimately lead to me having my own UNACs mindless puke HSM and VTFs at a target.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#17 Sash

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 09:58 PM

RE Splinterdasher - Perhaps we should compare notes sometime?

 

RE Domine - My usual UNACs are almost exclusively close-quarters. I needed to throw together a hardcore sawa quad UNAC for maps where my opponents could effortlessly bait out and string together my other UNACs. It's lame, kinda dumb, but it works.

 

RE Novum - No it's a heavy quad lol. Rather pretty too.

 

RE Hydrafex - That sounds like a fun idea. You'll see Cannon and Heat Cannon with dual subs for supporting the rest of the team. I started enjoying Jellyfish spam. :P

 

RE Sarcomite upgrade - Yeah they're fucking brilliant with flash rockets but it leaves them in harms way more often than not. In a 2v2 they'd still be great because they even the odds basically, but when it's a 4v4 they just run off and get focused down. I got mine to GB pretty well but it doesn't have the incredible rushdown ability that we're all looking for. Likewise, my main UNACs dump VTFs on things, the other ones dump HSM on things, and recently everything runs Jellyfish. Next time I assert my dominance on the map I'll have everything run Jailers because that'd be hilarious, overspecialized, and purely aesthetic.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 





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