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#21 Nescient

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:37 PM

I'll admit I wasn't thinking about duels, and that the suggestion i made has never seen JP duty. 

 

What exactly does a wet HSM do that a dry one does not?

 

no quad frame blocks vtfs or LM. A lot of them hit the semi-effective threshold for power BRs, which is kinda a big deal due to the nature of BRs, and those that use them. The real threat on that setup is the hangers/SU, which was my point but worder poorly. The underlying point was to go mid weight (hence ortigara) which allows for the heavy weapons and very respectable defense. 

 

Rogan... Snipor Cannons Fire Kinetic Rounds....

 

the way defenses work in this game is that theybrtblsrjhgvsdlfjgvydsfvjldafvahsg;fhvadfhi;bvsdiy;fbvsdgbljy.]

 

fuck u, if the SC lands its GG, planes and simple. That setup is 1v4 material never mind duels. The X00 punches thru 1st gen TE shields. Sure the second gen shield kinda breaks it but anything not carrying at least one of those is just plain fucked. You get ~40 SC shots, enough to tag a shield and drown a UNAC or two if you're lucky. 

 

.... were talking quads and HBPs, its never just one K29 and a missile... The quad has its TE shield, which gets wrecked by missiles. Unless the HBP is played by a retard humping a doorknob it doesn't even need the rifle....


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#22 rogan

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 02:33 PM

my stuffs in bold

I'll admit I wasn't thinking about duels, and that the suggestion i made has never seen JP duty. 

He mentioned that he was playing on JP tho...

 

What exactly does a wet HSM do that a dry one does not?

I should have been more specific: I meant HSM by itself, no Sawa fire with it.

 

no quad frame blocks vtfs or LM. A lot of them hit the semi-effective threshold for power BRs, which is kinda a big deal due to the nature of BRs, and those that use them. The real threat on that setup is the hangers/SU, which was my point but worder poorly. The underlying point was to go mid weight (hence ortigara) which allows for the heavy weapons and very respectable defense. 

I've lost count of the number of quads I've killed with battle rifles + missiles and they have 2.3k CE or a little higher.  Mid quads also have less AP and if memory serves are slower. On the flip side they have much better turning, but that doesn't mean that it beats a HBP in a damage race. As far as respectable defenses: light quads hit the same important defense numbers and have MORE AP.

 

Rogan... Snipor Cannons Fire Kinetic Rounds....

​Since you seem to be suggesting a mid quad you have less AP than a light one and they simply have to sit behind cover til the timer ends or you run out of SC rounds. You better hope they don't pack a KE shield and a TE one.

 

the way defenses work in this game is that theybrtblsrjhgvsdlfjgvydsfvjldafvahsg;fhvadfhi;bvsdiy;fbvsdgbljy.]

 

fuck u, if the SC lands its GG, planes and simple. That setup is 1v4 material never mind duels. The X00 punches thru 1st gen TE shields. Sure the second gen shield kinda breaks it but anything not carrying at least one of those is just plain fucked. You get ~40 SC shots, enough to tag a shield and drown a UNAC or two if you're lucky. 

Nobody uses 1st gen TE shields. Those are just completely outclassed by the second gen one. Which walls you. In a 1v4 I would be astonished to see a SC win the day. Maybe if the opposing team was all tanks. Nevermind that in CQ people tend to either sit behind cover when they see a sc quad or they rush it and force it to drop the SC. 40 shots vs 15 shots doesn't make a difference.

​Who cares about hitting UNACs with it. JP UNACs are going to gang rush the SC quad because its sitting still and they really don't give a shit about death.

 

.... were talking quads and HBPs, its never just one K29 and a missile... The quad has its TE shield, which gets wrecked by missiles. Unless the HBP is played by a retard humping a doorknob it doesn't even need the rifle....

No, its usually 2 sawas and a HSM. Where I still give the advantage to the quad for reasons I already stated. Additionally even if the shield is broken off it extends the AP of the quad which is already higher than the HBP. Plus I haven't seen a quad without at least one shield on JP in months. I've seen a lot of these sawa heavies without one tho.

 

 


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#23 Nescient

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 05:18 PM

moot

honry 

tldr

you mean one simply has to not play... in free battle... again this assumes 1v1s...

WHAT PART OF A THERMAL SHIELD WALLS YAKUMO?!  The sniper cannon does not win the day, it gets the ball rolling by weeding out thermal defense. 

UNACs are just very easy targets, in the situation you mention its often possible to take one down on the way in, sometimes a second if you can get them to derp around a wall. What would the K29/HSM build do in this scenario? Kick its way out? Fold before the first kill.


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#24 rogan

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 08:30 PM

moot

honry 

tldr

you mean one simply has to not play... in free battle... again this assumes 1v1s...

WHAT PART OF A THERMAL SHIELD WALLS YAKUMO?!  The sniper cannon does not win the day, it gets the ball rolling by weeding out thermal defense. 

UNACs are just very easy targets, in the situation you mention its often possible to take one down on the way in, sometimes a second if you can get them to derp around a wall. What would the K29/HSM build do in this scenario? Kick its way out? Fold before the first kill.

Read my post: where did I say TE shield walls SC. Cover walls sniper cannon.

 

A sniper cannon can only get the ball rolling if your mid quad has enough AP to force the light quad to come into range. It doesn't.

 

Not everyone runs fat UNACs like me. On JP those are a rarity. Additionally, The first response I gave to your UNAC comment was "Who cares"

What does the K29 + HSM UNAC do in this scenario: Advances under a KE shield with its allied UNACs moving as a group.


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#25 Nescient

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:42 PM

Iffs... your weapon set of SC/TE shield/added ammo/X00/K37 gets stonewalled by the CC sawa quad with a TE shield while they can break off yours via HSM and kill you.

 


Read my post: where did I say TE shield walls SC. Cover walls sniper cannon.

Bottom of the first page

 

A sniper cannon can only get the ball rolling if your mid quad has enough AP to force the light quad to come into range. It doesn't.

This is a good point, as i said i wasn't thinking about duels specifically.

 

Not everyone runs fat UNACs like me. On JP those are a rarity. Additionally, The first response I gave to your UNAC comment was "Who cares"

What does the K29 + HSM UNAC do in this scenario: Advances under a KE shield with its allied UNACs moving as a group.

I dont discriminate against fat unacs. Anything grounded and or moving in a straight line works. 

 

The first response I gave was directed at a comment you made suggesting that my setup was in no way capable of a 1v4. Your rebuttal factored in team mates... so... ​your unac advances alone, and dies an irrelevant death... Given TE weak targets and a skilled hand K29s+HSM should be good for 4 kills. Factor in a pile or an SC and its great. 

 

If you wanna assume 4v4 the mag setup becomes even more better. 

 

 

 

Is this cc light quad on belukha? 


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#26 rogan

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 06:54 PM

I can't seem to copy the whole post for some reason.

 

Is this cc light quad on belukha? 

I don't actually remember what the ACV name translation is.

Ok, fair enough. That doesn't change the fact that your set up still does not beat the CC Sawa quad. It simply outwaits you with AP lead behind cover and when you go to your weapons you can do nothing.

 

*I made my text pink too!

 

You keep bringing you UNACs to which my original response was still "who cares".

 

Lets assume that you can hit any UNAC with the sniper cannon reliably on an approach. Just for the sake of argument. You cannot get off enough SC rounds to break the shields off of 4 UNACs and kill them before they advance on a ready position unit. Anytime you want to 4v1 some UNACs with this you just let me know. I can make it happen.

 

 

I still do not, and will not, see this as a build which can deal with a 4v1. The opposing team WILL sit behind cover and let you spam SC rounds into a wall, achieving nothing. Go to your non cannon weapons and you lose to a single TE shield. Nevermind that most teams carry 2 - 4 of them. Now, maybe you can noob stomp INT teams with it. Again: who cares? Post 13 states that he is trying to transition to the JP server.

 

*Pink text!

 

I don't see how you can argue for your build using going after TE weak targets with K29 + HSM since your build doesn't use them. You use SC/Shield/ammo mags/X00/K37. TE weak targets carry a TE shield.

 

There is a reason that sniper cannon quads on JP simply use SC/Shield/HSM/K29/K29. 4v4 your added ammo doesn't change anything. The opposing team uses cover to wait out your SC then walls you with a TE shield.


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#27 Nescient

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 07:22 AM

Ok, fair enough. That doesn't change the fact that your set up still does not beat the CC Sawa quad. It simply outwaits you with AP lead behind cover and when you go to your weapons you can do nothing.

 

I checked the numbers, unless japan buffed quad AP Belukha (the lightest) is a few thousand points behind ortigara (the heavy looking mid weight with turning performance). Maby ur smoking crack. 

 

 

Lets assume that you can hit any UNAC with the sniper cannon reliably on an approach. Just for the sake of argument. You cannot get off enough SC rounds to break the shields off of 4 UNACs and kill them before they advance on a ready position unit. Anytime you want to 4v1 some UNACs with this you just let me know. I can make it happen.

 

 

That isn't fair. SCs aren't reliable. Given 100% accuracy you probably could wipe out an entire team on a map like Route N64. I only brought up AI because it is so often relatively simple to knock out one bot as the team approaches, and wall bait for a second kill before the 1 minute mark. 

 

There is a reason that sniper cannon quads on JP simply use SC/Shield/HSM/K29/K29. 4v4 your added ammo doesn't change anything. The opposing team uses cover to wait out your SC then walls you with a TE shield.

 

I'm pretty sure thats too much weight for a light quad tho it might pass with suzu or herz...  


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#28 rogan

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:23 AM

And this time it lets me reply to the entire post. weird. My stuff in Bold

I checked the numbers, unless japan buffed quad AP Belukha (the lightest) is a few thousand points behind ortigara (the heavy looking mid weight with turning performance). Maby ur smoking crack. 

 

 I advise you to check your numbers again. The highest turning quad is the YOMOGUI mdl 1 which has 26013 AP. The Standard Quad legs on JP are The L4A-119 which have 27468 AP. The lightest quad is the L4B-107, which are frankly bad legs and not used. Look at the standard KE quad frame: 227/CB-209/107D(mod)/119, it has 42820 AP, change the legs to the YOMOGUI mdl 1: 41365 AP. If you want to have more AP than a light quad with a mid quad you actually need to run the modified version of the YOMOGUI mdl 1, which gives 43376 AP but for some unknown reason loses load capacity, on top of that you cut into the reason to use a mid quad in the first place: turning. The over 100 point difference drops to 62 turning points. The legs are also slower for some dumb reason.

 

 

 

That isn't fair. SCs aren't reliable. Given 100% accuracy you probably could wipe out an entire team on a map like Route N64. I only brought up AI because it is so often relatively simple to knock out one bot as the team approaches, and wall bait for a second kill before the 1 minute mark. 

 

​Maybe if you are running across someone like me who uses 3 UNACs + 1 Human. On JP this is not the case as UNACs are often operator controlled and are far less likely to walk around a corner into a kick since the operator uses beacons to move the squad.

 

​Again: Shields cover an approach and many of the UNACs I've seen on JP run two. On top of that, they often dodge and jump around like a rabbit on speed.

 

I'm pretty sure thats too much weight for a light quad tho it might pass with suzu or herz...  

 

You would be astonished at the number of light quads which have started to run Suzu + 309. However just to make my point here is the SC quad I use on JP:
​227/CB-209/107D(mod)/L4A-119

​E28/Suzu/Toko/RA-209

​AM SCA-219/AMAGOROMO mdl. 2/KMB-118H/K29/K29

 

I have 199 free units of weight, I like the 3 shot SC because its fun and I can take out turrets very quickly on that stupid canyon map. Suzu + Toko lets me permacharge the K29 if I want/need to and was my 1st pick of a generator. You can fit the G23 on with a few part charges and Buyra boosters.  
 


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#29 Nescient

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 10:11 AM

Well fuck. The only thing that doesn't do well is recoil buffering.

 

L4B-107 doesn't have the monopoly on speed that it used to but its still one of my favorites.

 

Ortigara mod makes your AP lead argument moot, turning is good enough and the defenses don't hurt.

 

1+3 AI is pretty much all I run into these days. You scoff at me for running signs UNACs but half the squads I run into struggle vs the three tanks left to there own devices. 

 

mlg dual shield unacs are a fucking pita. OTOH they often don't have weapon swap programming and can be ignored till the end of the match. The LRJ from that sabbath player (phantom fox?) runs extremely aggressive movement chips but all it does is hop around the target in a circle till the shields are blown off... 

 

from what i hear everything on JP runs suzu/309.

 

 

 

 

TLDR i win u lose crab battle challenge issued. 


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#30 rogan

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:18 PM

My stuff in bold again.

Well fuck. The only thing that doesn't do well is recoil buffering.

kinda the only downside. you don't get a bullet hose SC.

 

L4B-107 doesn't have the monopoly on speed that it used to but its still one of my favorites.

That doesn't make it a good or even commonly used part. I love the Aaliyah head in FA, its still a bad part.

 

Ortigara mod makes your AP lead argument moot, turning is good enough and the defenses don't hurt.

Well, if you can switch the frame then I can run the alternate quad frame which has 44K AP and still AP leads your Ortigara mod. Which I pointed out to you in the first place btw.

 

1+3 AI is pretty much all I run into these days. You scoff at me for running signs UNACs but half the squads I run into struggle vs the three tanks left to there own devices. 

I beat your 4 tank squad with a mid, quad, tank and some random HBP I was using. I will stiff scoff at SIGNS UNACs. Again, the build in this thread is being played on JP where you will not see that. (Well eventually you are bound to hit at least one person with that I suppose)

 

mlg dual shield unacs are a fucking pita. OTOH they often don't have weapon swap programming and can be ignored till the end of the match. The LRJ from that sabbath player (phantom fox?) runs extremely aggressive movement chips but all it does is hop around the target in a circle till the shields are blown off... 

I assure you that this is not the case on JP as the dual shield UNACs are very aggressive and have no issues using their main weapons. (again this is where the quad in the thread is being played) I wouldn't judge what happens on JP, trailing off though it may be, by what you see on INT.

 

from what i hear everything on JP runs suzu/309.

Not everything but most do. Its the safest gen/booster combo in the game.

 

 

 

 

TLDR i win u lose crab battle challenge issued. 

I don't see what you win since I had to point out that the modded legs were the only way around the AP lead issue I brought up in the first place. I don't know what a crab battle is but when you feel confident that you can 4v1 some UNACs with your SC/Sheild/Ammo mags/X00/K37 mid quad you let me know. I can get on late tonight if you want to get it out of the way.


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#31 Nescient

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:35 AM

you mean to tell me you've never pit two crabs against each other in a fight to the death.


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#32 rogan

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 11:56 AM

you mean to tell me you've never pit two crabs against each other in a fight to the death.

I find it more productive to eat them both.


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#33 Nescient

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 01:48 PM

Thats because ur fat. There are a few invasive species of crab where I come from, they wage war on native crab and lobster, sabotage fishermen and can't be et. So into Sand Castle Adun's thunder-dome they go. 


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#34 Sash

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 06:18 PM

So into Sand Castle Adun's thunder-dome they go. 

 

PICS OR VID.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 





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