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SkillBreakeR - ACVD 1v1 Tournament


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#61 FromCheng

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 07:57 AM

Unfortunately the lack of manual aim builds and some of the more known players was a real shame.. If a similar ruleset is taken in future then perhaps exceptions could be made for these builds.

Of most of the criticism directed toward the tournie's ruleset, I feel this was probably one of the more legitimate and important ones. My reasoning for not making exceptions for any parts this ruleset was basically if I can't get it to work in its base form (IE the foundation itself), no amount of modification would help much. It seems like alot like this format though, so I will be looking into it for the next one coming. This info will be included in the player survey.

Rogan, there was a 2v2 planned for October, but I unfortunately had to scrap it due to work reasons. When RuffxRaiju gets back from moving I will speak to him about running one though. 2v2s are a little better to play and a bit more balanced so idk for sure whether we're going to implement any bans tho. I need to do more research and stuff. 

Also, quick note to all players who won prizes, either in the giveaway or in the tournie. It will take about 2-3 weeks for me to send everything out. I will be contacting everyone within the next week or so to get address info.

Speaking of which, first batch of vids.






 


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#62 Zenith2025

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 11:57 AM

2 v 2 sounds like it would be sick!

#63 DominantLegend

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 05:02 PM

 

Of most of the criticism directed toward the tournie's ruleset, I feel this was probably one of the more legitimate and important ones. My reasoning for not making exceptions for any parts this ruleset was basically if I can't get it to work in its base form (IE the foundation itself), no amount of modification would help much. It seems like alot like this format though, so I will be looking into it for the next one coming. This info will be included in the player survey.

 

This worries me. While the tournament did go through and some good players did join, I would not by any means call the rule set a success, and the structure caused it to bloat heavily time-wise, and I'm sure you didn't intend to have it be a 13 hour affair. The top level builds were not varied much at all, and you did enforce the use of certain strategies by blanket-banning.

 

Are you suggesting that you're going to form and enforce a de-facto VD tournament format based on private surveys and your resulting decisions only? And if so, that the rules in this tournament are a baseline you're going to modify?

 

That being said, a 2v2 tournament sounds like the solution to most of the problems of this one (no banned parts needed, can be ran shorter without going over time).



#64 FromCheng

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 05:39 PM

The ruleset is far from perfect, don't get me wrong, but I already knew that from that start. Having the first one go well just means there is potential, although it's still too early to say just how much without more iterations and refinement. As Swiitch was saying, there's still alot that has not been explored, some of which was a bit surprising to me. In regards to strategies/designs, I'm going to have relook at the matches. I was way too tired to fully pay attention with having to stream and update info frequently.

I'm not saying so much "THIS FORMAT DA BEST USE THIS OR GTFO" but rather that we need to figure out a standardized format. If people like this one and want to keep using it, I'd be more than happy to keep working on it till it gets somewhere that most people can be in agreement that it works and/or it's good. At the same time, while I'm certain there are alot of potentially good formats out there, I do not have the time to explore them all anymore or run them all. I can only hold so many tournaments and use so many rulesets, which is why I went to greater lengths to get the communities input (IE the surveys) for this particular one.
 

Tournament structure is just something that needs to be figured out with more experience and tournies run. It took as long as it did because alot of VD is filled with load screens, menus, and waiting and people not showing up when they were supposed to, problems that have always plagued 5th Gen tournaments. These issues are not unique to SkillBreakeR and the only way to overcome these is to be more organized.

Just as a reference, most large scale tournies in both V-VD which ran successfully have taken on average 10-12 hours.
 


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#65 DominantLegend

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 05:57 PM

At the very least, I think an open dialogue (even after doing surveys) is going to be far more preferential to purely making decisions on your own resulting from surveys. 

 

I don't think your bans/rule sets are going to increase turnout, or decrease turnout. I think they're just going to mess with the metagame within the tournament, with no change in results other than who possibly ends up on top. 

 

tl;dr: If you want to make a community standard, you need an open community decision making process, not one delegated to just one or two people, or you need to drop the pretense that this is a community standard and retain your bias.

 

 

 

You're in an adverse selection problem where you can dictate any rule set you really want, and still get people to participate. No one else is running tournaments with differing rules, the player base is not large enough to support varied tournamet setups, and there are a lack of people capable of hosting them in the first place. This means that most of your sample data is very biased in favor of whatever rules you enforce. 

 

Morever, you're in a position where you get the most benefit out of dictating rules that focus on publicity and perpetuating the tournament's turnout rather than providing skillful or fair matches, you have more to gain by choosing a strange tournament format that causes "upsets" than you do from one that rigorously tests everyone's ability.

 

Having private surveys then making your own decisions of of that does not mitigate that bias. Use the surveys to create ideas, then propose the ideas to the public, instead of forcing them in the next tournament format, then let a collaboration form the rule set out of that by revising what is proposed. That's all. Be transparent about what the surveys said, don't be vague, give us numbers. That's what a survey is for, to acquire data and analyze it. 



#66 Sash

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 06:45 PM

I mean, I had a 2v2 tournament. It was fun. I didn't ban anything, but you could only change your build once and you then locked in your two ACs. You could bring a UNAC too if you so desired. Some of the problems were team-related (drama) but otherwise I think 80% of the competitors had a good time.

 

I'd be happy to help out with the next event, though I'm not so sure whether I will be able to or not.

 

Either way, looking forward to the matches that I missed. Also feeling happy about the fledgling streaming community we're building.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#67 FromCheng

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 07:54 AM








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#68 FromCheng

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:44 AM






 


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#69 FromCheng

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:59 PM

Vids are all up with the exception of GF as I need to redit it. To watch them check out the playlist below.

Playlist: https://www.youtube....AbdCWS-rPjHWWB1
 



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#70 Seigh

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:45 PM

Thanks for the uploads, watched all so far, very cool matches. I think mine vs SEB_HALLO is missing though. 



#71 FromCheng

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:58 PM

Noted. Helamasa also told me him vs Reiko was missing too. I'll have to check to see if I simply didn't render it or didn't upload it.


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#72 DaFume

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 09:18 PM

nice videos looked like fun



#73 FromCheng

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 03:53 PM

Alright, all videos should be up now, including all missing ones as well as Grand Finals. If anyone notices one they think should be there and isn't, please let me know. 
 

https://www.youtube....AbdCWS-rPjHWWB1


-Final Boss, wields Tolima





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