Jump to content


Photo

ACVD 1.07: HCWA LRJ - Messing around with Foreheads and Heat Cannons


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#21 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 13 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

160/330 is light quad territory, imo kinda crippling with such little energy capacity. Fast builds are going to give this trouble. I bet it struggles to corral a light tank over open ground. 

 

Outrange fave.


Close the door, put out the light.


#22 Sash

Sash

    Fucking Tryhard BR Meta-whore.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,498 posts
  • AC Type:
    Based 003 3BR God
  • PSNID:
    @JP SashPerennial
  • LIVE Tag:
    Sash X64

Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:03 AM

160/330 is light quad territory, imo kinda crippling with such little energy capacity. Fast builds are going to give this trouble. I bet it struggles to corral a light tank over open ground. 

 

Outrange fave.

 

The average light quad struggles to get over 150/300 iirc. I haven't felt any crippling disadvantages as a result from Suzumushi, though the Herz version is quite unanimously better for duels.

 

I've dealt with fast builds in slower ACs, this is less concerning to me. As for corralling light tanks, I've done it with slower shit. This is like my second serious venture into light-leg territory, though, so if you have any recommendations that I could try, that would be of greater benefit.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#23 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:37 AM

idk dude, my melee quad hits ~160/330.

 

anyway... the extreme generator choices have inherent flaws. Suzu will be forced into making trades or breaking off, herz susceptible to pressure and difficult maintain presence with in a 4v4.

 

I suggest this:

 

meaning that gen/booster i mentioned. 

 

I'd also go back to dual pulse guns. Shotty/pulse is better left to a standard arm build where the shotgun serves multiple rolls (armor break for a battle rifle/PG, stun-chaining with HSM or setup for UVFs).


Close the door, put out the light.


#24 SwiiTcHBacK

SwiiTcHBacK

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • AC Type:
    Light biped

Posted 13 October 2015 - 12:38 PM

I agree with your analysis of the extremeties of generators, sometimes you have no choice though. Herz still does have benefits over vital though, particularly with TE weaponry being able to get in and do a lot of damage while there in a small space of time then retreat.

 

As for that video.. Like all unacs and bad teams.. Demonstrates staying in the fight fairly well I guess.



#25 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 13 October 2015 - 01:33 PM

452 remaining weight though? dual pulse saves 150, core to agni, head to one of the lighter KE options (rugerro or the little... triangley.... one...) and its either possible or painfully close to shin/vital.


Close the door, put out the light.


#26 Sash

Sash

    Fucking Tryhard BR Meta-whore.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,498 posts
  • AC Type:
    Based 003 3BR God
  • PSNID:
    @JP SashPerennial
  • LIVE Tag:
    Sash X64

Posted 13 October 2015 - 02:35 PM

Oml Mo Cyan jokes inbound XD

 

Hey I'll give Vital/Shin a shot on this. It'll probably fit with some tweaks.

 

The reason I'm running Suzu in the first place is because the build is all about taking targets down in a single engagement and having the energy needed to do that - either staying behind them or unloading with the Pulse and Shotty. In that regard, Dual Pulse was actually slower in time to kill as opposed to Pulse and Shotty. I might give it some more testing against a greater variety of builds, but namely I'm facing extra-heavy quads that buff Mahaon, so the USG picks up the slack there.

 

As for Blade Quads... that's melee though. I can just shoot at ya from the front.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#27 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:14 PM

oml?

 

tbh i picked a video at random, only meant to show the build.

 

 

"extra heavy quads that buff mahoan"

 

Then they're still open to the HCs.


Close the door, put out the light.


#28 Sash

Sash

    Fucking Tryhard BR Meta-whore.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,498 posts
  • AC Type:
    Based 003 3BR God
  • PSNID:
    @JP SashPerennial
  • LIVE Tag:
    Sash X64

Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:54 PM

I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that those quads are fat enough to tank more than 90% of my Heat Cannon shots. I would prefer to use those to pluck the souls of naughty heavy bipeds from their unsuspecting necks.

 

Speaking of that build, though, I remember making a stupidly bulky 40k AP Midweight to use HCWAs in the role of damage-racing things. It is nowhere near as fun to play as this little RJ, however - that's why I made the thread. I would like to get this little bugger as potent as possible, but I realize that I am placing a rather tall order with regards to all the things that I think are contingent for a good build in this case. 


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#29 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:55 PM

moot point. Give them 90% in duels, if thats what it takes. Team games you do your job first then fux with the quad. 

 

If the opposing team consists of 4 mahoan proof quads, light your console on fire and never look back.

 

 

"stupidly bulky 40k AP Midweight to use HCWAs in the role of damage-racing things. It is nowhere near as fun to play as this little RJ, however - that's why I made the thread."

 

I prefer RR with HCWA to allow glide shenanigans. Stick with the RJ or try a HBP.

 

 

" I would like to get this little bugger as potent as possible, but I realize that I am placing a rather tall order with regards to all the things that I think are contingent for a good build in this case. "

 

 

just find a way to fit shin/vital and you're good. It'll more or less work anywhere vs anything. Permaglide is huge for these builds, but lights absolutely need capacity to work offensively and defensively. 


Close the door, put out the light.


#30 Black Crow

Black Crow

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts
  • LocationFinland (Crow's nest)
  • AC Type:
    LBP, HRJ, Light Quad, CQC.
  • PSNID:
    Kotileijonat
  • LIVE Tag:
    Kotileijonat

Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:32 AM

... I feel like dropping off an alternative, here. I would recommend against using this one in CQ due to a certain defense value.

 

Head: HF-227 Core: MATSUKAZE mdl.3 Arms: Wa-V-P08 (0.0.3) Legs: L05 Fisherman

FCS: Fs-L-F03 Generator: MAKIBASHIRA mdl.1 Booster: BA-309

R arm unit: Au-M-R31 (3.0.0) L arm unit: AM/SHA-207

 

Boosters: 150/351

Turning: 895

RR:1430

EN recovery: 3,499 (I know it's quite low.)

 

KE: 1038

CE: 165

TE: 1182

 

Optionally, you can replace the shield with another pulse gun, or any of the handguns to be able to deal with shields.

Additionally, by changing the core to MATSUKAZE mdl.2, you can fit an AM/SGA-204 over the shield.

Depending on your preference, you can change the KE shield into a TE shield, which may be more recommended. Being a LW build, rifles shouldn't provide too much trouble, provided they're not equipped by another fast build chasing you down.


'CAW, CAW, CAW'


#31 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,685 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:57 AM

... I feel like dropping off an alternative, here. I would recommend against using this one in CQ due to a certain defense value.

 

Head: HF-227 Core: MATSUKAZE mdl.3 Arms: Wa-V-P08 (0.0.3) Legs: L05 Fisherman

FCS: Fs-L-F03 Generator: MAKIBASHIRA mdl.1 Booster: BA-309

R arm unit: Au-M-R31 (3.0.0) L arm unit: AM/SHA-207

 

Boosters: 150/351

Turning: 895

RR:1430

EN recovery: 3,499 (I know it's quite low.)

 

KE: 1038

CE: 165

TE: 1182

The only thing I don't like about this build is that when you go to smack a tank around with it, you run the risk of being hit with effective autos on your approach. Honestly I didn't have an issue with the EN when I used it.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#32 Sash

Sash

    Fucking Tryhard BR Meta-whore.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,498 posts
  • AC Type:
    Based 003 3BR God
  • PSNID:
    @JP SashPerennial
  • LIVE Tag:
    Sash X64

Posted 15 October 2015 - 03:34 PM

Lol isn't effective autocannon DPS something terrifying like 12k or 16k a second? I mathed it at like 24,000-ish but that's probably wrong XD. (four simultaneously-fired bullets at 1253 attack power and 8 reload)

 

And lol, as for the Herz's regen, mine typically work with like 1800 regen or something abysmal like that.

 

Anyhow, I haven't had the chance to apply any changes yet, but thanks for the input!


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#33 DominantLegend

DominantLegend

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • AC Type:
    AC Red Sun
  • PSNID:
    DominantLegend

Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:20 PM

1038 KE, enemy has 199 firing stability:

9480 AP/s (218 Autocannon)

2155 AP/s (RFA-215 rifle)

1465 AP/s (GGA-208 gatling)

6934 AP per hit (SGA-208 shotgun, including impact stun)

5972 AP per hit (SGB-203 shotgun)

 

1900 KE, enemy has 199 firing stability:

1509 AP/s (218 Autocannon) 

714 AP/s (RFA-215 rifle)

1162 AP/s (GGA-208 gatling)

2383 AP per hit (SGA-208 shotgun, including impact stun)

1388 AP per hit (SGB-203 shotgun)

 

Jellyfish and HSM would do about 3x more too.

 

Is that worth it? 



#34 SwiiTcHBacK

SwiiTcHBacK

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • AC Type:
    Light biped

Posted 15 October 2015 - 06:50 PM

I played against dual autocannon/HSM with around 1000/1100 KE repeatedly in duels.. So there it can be. I generally wouldn't advise it in conquest most of the time.

 

The gatling and shotgun are essentially irrelevant weapons to any competitive player and can be discounted the majority of the time.



#35 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,685 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 15 October 2015 - 07:04 PM

I played against dual autocannon/HSM with around 1000/1100 KE repeatedly in duels.. So there it can be. I generally wouldn't advise it in conquest most of the time.

... I don't think thats justification for it being a good idea though. I've won duels with tansys, doesn't make them good weapons. Just that it can be done. I just wanted to point out that the set up has a weakness versus something that it should beat.

 

I think crow mentioned that he wouldn't use this in conquest anyway.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#36 SwiiTcHBacK

SwiiTcHBacK

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • AC Type:
    Light biped

Posted 15 October 2015 - 07:55 PM

I think it is not a bad idea. HSMs are often effective after a laser or the first HSM, so you're not saving much from a full volley (which are the ones that hurt and that you should certainly be trying to get not to land). Autocannons are dodgeable in a CQC style enough to still win duels against decent players (due to power spec with missile support having relatively low lock), while it is obviously very detrimental to this matchup it can be overcome, unlike my opinion on some other bad matchups.



#37 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,685 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 17 October 2015 - 06:14 PM

I think it is not a bad idea. HSMs are often effective after a laser or the first HSM, so you're not saving much from a full volley (which are the ones that hurt and that you should certainly be trying to get not to land).

This is why I prefer to be stronger boosters (or at least booster which move you further with a single boost) and a higher cap generator. Too little and I find it difficult to cut the angle on missiles. You can do this with high accel boosters but I don't like having to burn my entire capacity to evade a single savo. In CQ this probably isn't a significant issue though. I can see how suzu/shin would work in duels (particularly given weight restrictions) but a higher cap is propably more useful.

 

Take this with a grain of salt, as duels in VD aren't something I play often. Or put a lot of effort into.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq