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#1 Nova313

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 04:39 AM

Hey guys!  Hope all has been going well with the community.  I've been gone for about a year or so but I'm looking to get back into the game.  I have an affinity for LBPs so here is the one I'm currently working on.  Since I'm just getting back into the game I haven't actually tried this out in actual battle.  However it does pretty well in the practice room and against the AI on sortie missions.  Let me know what you pros think.  Any and all critiques are welcome.  Thanks.

 

Old Blue:

 

Frame

-Head: H02 Scarlet

-Core:  C03 Malicious

-Arms:  Utsusemi mdl4 (Theodora variant)

-Legs:  Nowaki mdl2

-FCS:   Fe-L-F03

-Gen:   Suzumushi 

-Booster:  Bo-C-H11 (Dafeng)

 

Weapons:

-RA:  X00 Karasawa (3/0/0)

-LA:  Au-U-E02 (CE Shield)

-Shoulder:  CIWS

-RB:  Kuretake mld2 (3/0/0)

-LB:  Kuretake mdl2 (3/0/0)

 

Booster:

-Full Armament = 194/ 385 

-Kawa Purged = 200/ 399

-Kawa/ Shield Purged = 202/ 402

 

Stats:

AP: 28, 082

KE: 1757

CE: 284

TE: 852

RR: 959

Turning: 738

ER: 7,211

Load: 4,699/ 4,952

 

Tactics:  Hit and Run.  Methods vary but usually Sawa first then sniper rifle fire.  Do not trade fire for fire!

 

Offense:

The 4 shot Sawa packs a huge punch against just about everyone.  I have noticed that Tanks and HBPs soak up the damage much easier with little harm, given that I only have 4 shots.  However it does armor break everything which has been great for my UNAC.  I generally don't go full charge on the Sawa (mostly because my gen can't handle it...lol).  After full red lock I'm letting that baby go!  And lock happens fairly quickly...about a second or so if I remember correctly.  I went with double Sniper Rifles due to their high damage, impact force and weight.  The downside is the long lock time so it forces me to blue lock.  Not ideal but doable.

 

Defense:

It's a LBP so there isn't much to be had.  At my current levels I can block out most unstaggered rifles and lower on the KE side and also all PMGs and lower on the TE side.  However, I'm screwed on the CE side.  AP is decent for a LBP.

 

Survivability:

First and foremost is speed.  This AC is really fast.  Once the Sawa and shield are used up/ purged it gets even faster.  I know most are going to lament that I chose a LBP over a LRJ but 1) I don't like LRJs and 2) there simply are no LRJs that can offer the same amount of speed and allow me to carry this loadout.  Turning for a LBP is laughable (though still better than LRJs) but Old Blue makes up for it in his speed and ability to change direction quickly.  I gave up a little firepower to pack a CE shield but it has the dual purpose of allowing me to get in those Sawa shots with little to no harm as well as saving me from getting raped by CE weaponry.  CIWS is a god send and saves me from missile the inevitable missile barrage.  And the insane energy output on my generator allows me to HB like crazy.  Though I do have to be careful of that when I'm using the Sawa.  Due to it's low RR I have to be careful getting into a CQC situation with SG users.  Zoning is usually the best option...hit and run!

 

 



#2 DominantLegend

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:34 AM

There's a few things you're combining that don't fit together well:

 

1. Close range FCS and Nowaki. Nowaki's low turning makes it generally inferior for ~150m lock on. While you can rush in decently with it, your weapons are mostly mid-long range oriented and you're putting yourself in CEMG range just to get a lock on.

 

2. CE shields can work as a CQC deterrent, but here you're mostly using it to try to stop CEMGs, since close range missiles are covered by CIWS. With this build, you should just out-range CEMGs and switch to  a KE shield that can prevent countersniping with rifles high speed missile and shotguns, all of which will stun you hard once you've purged X00.

 

3. Dual KE weapons with no backups (X00 doesn't count, as it's too easy to waste the ammo for). Anyone who baits the karasawa shots and has a KE shield in bay is going to be able to stop you from doing any effective damage. And any AC that is slow enough you can get around the shield (your turning isn't that good) is going to soak up the karasawa shots anyway and beat you at close range.

 

4. Low En conductivity and high powered boosters: This means you're going to have awful acceleration, forcing you to rely on jumping and high boost reaction to dodge everything, and no glide boost capability. This defeats the point of a lightweight, which is to control the range through glide boost and have twitchy, responsive normal boost for circling around and dodging. A high accel lightweight  can throw off most cannons, some rifles, CEMGs, PMGs, and some missiles with just normal boost. 

 

5. Tune the Sawa for rapid fire. Unless you full charge it every time, rapid fire does more damage because it reduces charge time. Power only does more damage for the last ~20% of charge time or so, after Rapid has fully charged. 

 

 

 

All in all, this build is very map-dependent. If you can jump around a lot, good, but if you're on any map where there are open spaces without jumping abilities, you're in trouble. 

 

Out of curiosity, try this:

 

Frame:

HF-227 (higher stability)

CA-309 (Jackpod) (higher en conductivity)

AD-134 (dual shoulders)

Nowaki Mdl.2

 

FCS/Gen/Booster:

FA-215 (250m range with HF-227)

Makibashira Mdl.1 

BA-214 (best normal boost, good glide boost ability)

 

Weapons:

Wakakusa Mdl.1 (0/0/3) (rapid fire KE-shield breaker and quad melter)

AM/SRB-105 (3/0/0) (with FA-215, lock on is literally 5x faster)

Muratori Mdl.2 (Reserve Mag, gives you 129/25/10 ammo)

X00 Karasawa (0/3/0) (Rapid tune does more damage unless you're fully charging)

AM/SHA-109 (KE shield, helps keep you from being stunlocked by rifles, shotguns, or HSM, and prevents counter sniping)

 

Neither SRB-112 or Wakakusa Mdl.2 fit, unless you drop the shield. This build has 2 extra load left on it.

 

AP: 26712

KE: 1587

CE: 248

TE: 908

Recov: 2184

Main boost: 183

HB speed: 367

Turning: 754

 

This solves most of the problems, but does lower your defenses and lose the benefit of CIWS. In this case, stay out of the range of short range missiles and use the KE shield to keep high speed missile from hitting you. TE missiles are still a pain though, but CIWS doesn't tend to work well with them anyway. They're slow enough you can learn to just out maneuver them delicately.

 

The biggest problem I see with this suggestion is the long reload times (which is why wakakusa works well, for its rapid fire spam) but if you can get around those you can chip off 4000-6000k AP each time you pop out from behind cover, while staying out of range of most weapons, plus you get 10 shots of Karasawa and trade 7 sniper shots for much, much faster lock on times.



#3 Nescient

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:49 AM

id run ammo mag and free up enough weight to use a generator that can fully charge the sawa. Lock range with F03 and scarlet is horrific, swap the SRs out for competent close range weapons or use subs. 

 

I find nowaki does better with high accel boosters, high stability computation and 125 core conductivity. 

 

 

Hey guys!  Hope all has been going well with the community.  I've been gone for about a year or so but I'm looking to get back into the game.  I have an affinity for LBPs so here is the one I'm currently working on.  Since I'm just getting back into the game I haven't actually tried this out in actual battle.  However it does pretty well in the practice room and against the AI on sortie missions.  Let me know what you pros think.  Any and all critiques are welcome.  Thanks.

 

Old Blue:

 

Frame

-Head: H02 Scarlet

Bad choice, nowaki gets good mileage out of stability computation, your weapons benefit from camera performance. 

 

-Core:  C03 Malicious

You could free up some weight here for internals while gaining energy conductivity

 

-Arms:  Utsusemi mdl4 (Theodora variant)

works, but you'd be better off with slotless arms for blue locking or dual for the laser.

 

-Legs:  Nowaki mdl2

Good legs with decent potential as a min/max glass cannon. PMG defense is not worth it, IIRC they can't really build around HMGs either. 

 

-FCS:   Fe-L-F03

Doom

 

-Gen:   Suzumushi 

Doom

 

-Booster:  Bo-C-H11 (Dafeng)

Doom

 

Weapons:

-RA:  X00 Karasawa (3/0/0)

Rapid or accuracy tuning pls

 

-LA:  Au-U-E02 (CE Shield)

the second gen TE shield has decent CE defense. 

 

-Shoulder:  CIWS

Not advisable for a lightweight. The slow moving missiles its best against can all be dodged, the HSMs that will wreck you tend to get through. Bottom line for a lightweight, CIWs only functions in combat mode, you're better off maximizing your mobility advantage.

 

-RB:  Kuretake mld2 (3/0/0)

-LB:  Kuretake mdl2 (3/0/0)

 

Booster:

-Full Armament = 194/ 385 

-Kawa Purged = 200/ 399

-Kawa/ Shield Purged = 202/ 402

 

Stats:

AP: 28, 082

KE: 1757

CE: 284

TE: 852

RR: 959

Turning: 738

ER: 7,211

Load: 4,699/ 4,952

 

Tactics:  Hit and Run.  Methods vary but usually Sawa first then sniper rifle fire.  Do not trade fire for fire!

The net balance of this build leans towards trading fire...

 

Offense:

The 4 shot Sawa packs a huge punch against just about everyone.  I have noticed that Tanks and HBPs soak up the damage much easier with little harm, given that I only have 4 shots.  However it does armor break everything which has been great for my UNAC.  I generally don't go full charge on the Sawa (mostly because my gen can't handle it...lol).  After full red lock I'm letting that baby go!  And lock happens fairly quickly...about a second or so if I remember correctly.  I went with double Sniper Rifles due to their high damage, impact force and weight.  The downside is the long lock time so it forces me to blue lock.  Not ideal but doable.

Too much weight here. Its a reliable weapon set but you could get by without the full weight of an SR behind the laser, or use a lighter laser, which would free up enough to run vital/shinatsu.

 

Defense:

It's a LBP so there isn't much to be had.  At my current levels I can block out most unstaggered rifles and lower on the KE side and also all PMGs and lower on the TE side.  However, I'm screwed on the CE side.  AP is decent for a LBP.

 

Survivability:

First and foremost is speed.  This AC is really fast.  Once the Sawa and shield are used up/ purged it gets even faster.  I know most are going to lament that I chose a LBP over a LRJ but 1) I don't like LRJs and 2) there simply are no LRJs that can offer the same amount of speed and allow me to carry this loadout.  Turning for a LBP is laughable (though still better than LRJs) but Old Blue makes up for it in his speed and ability to change direction quickly.  I gave up a little firepower to pack a CE shield but it has the dual purpose of allowing me to get in those Sawa shots with little to no harm as well as saving me from getting raped by CE weaponry.  CIWS is a god send and saves me from missile the inevitable missile barrage.  And the insane energy output on my generator allows me to HB like crazy.  Though I do have to be careful of that when I'm using the Sawa.  Due to it's low RR I have to be careful getting into a CQC situation with SG users.  Zoning is usually the best option...hit and run!


Close the door, put out the light.


#4 Nova313

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:20 AM

@Dominant Legend:  you make a really good points (1&3) I was unaware of 4&5.  Like I said I've been away for over a year.  I'm going to have to do some research on energy conductivity as it relates to booster efficiency I guess.  Firing up the game now to try out your recommendations.  Will report back when done testing...thanks for your input.  It is much appreciated.

 

@Nescient:  I generally don't like to full charge the Sawa due to it's long charge time and how much that big blue light gives everything away.  However, as Dominant has pointed out I guess I should try a rapid tuned Sawa instead.  Hopefully charge time will be low enough that I would have more incentive to full charge that baby.  I didn't know about the whole energy conductivity thing and that some legs work better with some boosters.  I'll have to search the forum for a topic that covers this...and thank you for your input as well.



#5 DominantLegend

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 11:14 AM

I believe that energy conductivity is a modifier out of 200 (like firing stability) affecting the length of the accel time. So 93 conductivity has a modifier of 2.15, and 125 energy conductivity has a modifier of 1.6. This means that 125 energy conductivity is roughly 34% faster to top speed, and 165 conductivity would hit top speed 77% faster.

 

However, a 77% decrease on a fraction of a second isn't really noticeable, but on boosters that take 1-2 seconds to reach top speeds, it's REALLY noticeable. So the tighter your accel is already (from high accel boosters) the less conductivity matters. But since accel only affect slope, the peak speed matters too (longer accel but higher speed = same slope).

 

For a general rule of thumb, if I'm using high powered boosters (H11, L13, Tokonatsu), I keep En conductivity at a minimum of 125 and try to go for 140 if I can equip CE cores. If I'm using high accel, I try to keep it above 100 but don't worry about going much higher than that. 

 

In general, evasiveness matters more in terms of how fast you can change position, rather than how fast you can maximize your speed, because no AC stays at top speed all the time. 



#6 Sash

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 11:36 AM

I don't see why this AC isn't just a dedicated sniper. Trying to Blue Lock on F03 with Zlatkos is cool and all, but your build, with such low camera, may as well be touching your opponent to get damage off. Now, don't get me wrong, Blue Lock Zlats are pretty strong, but to use them to their greatest effectiveness you have to be keeping with your target cover-to-cover, and that can mean ending up having to be knee-deep in shit to do any damage.

 

My call is: If you're dead set on running snipers, become a real Sniper LW. If you're dead set on playing close-combat, switch to Shotguns? They're really a good deal more rewarding. Or hell, if you're the type to like CQB gear that can go mid range in a pinch, give Streks or Podenkas a go on that F03, you might find they favor you more than the Zlatkos.

 

 

However, since it looks like others have gone into a bit of depth about what you might want to do with the AC, I'm just gonna recommend using the legs for what they're most suited for, which is dedicated sniping. Sorry if that isn't a direction you want to take.

 

 

 

New Blue:
 
Frame
-Head: H02 Scarlet -> HF-227 [It's a good head, gives you some KE, some Stability, and has low weight and drain, and ideal head for many builds]
-Core:  C03 Malicious -> CA-215 [Slightly heavier and slightly drainier, but it's easily one of the best cores in the game]
-Arms:  Utsusemi mdl4 (Theodora variant) -> AD-134 [Simple part, gives you some TE and AP, and crucially Dual Shoulders]
-Legs:  Nowaki mdl2 
 
You many notice now that the AC is overweight as you make these changes. Sorry, but we're ditching some things that are less important.
 
-FCS:   Fe-L-F03 -> FA-215 or USUGUMO mdl.3 [Glance is what most folks who snipe use. Predire can be used if you want to "snipe" from far off. I'mma say Glance here though]
-Gen:   Suzumushi -> Ge-D-G23 [Ho Vital is gonna come in handy, although there's other options]
-Booster:  Bo-C-H11 (Dafeng) -> BA-309 [Shinatsu is really good on these legs]
 
Weapons:
-RA:  X00 Karasawa (3/0/0) -> NIODORI mdl.1 [No Sawa for you, lol. If you want to run Sawas, there's far better ways to do so than on a Lightweight]
-LA:  Au-U-E02 (CE Shield) -> NIODORI mdl.1 [I don't think there's any need for a Shield on this build. You'll be able to outrun damn near anything that fires at you]
-Shoulder:  CIWS -> Subcomputers [It's a sniper lol]
-RB:  Kuretake mld2 (3/0/0) -> Or AM/SRA-133 [Cycad is a bit better for this kind of work, but Zlatkos are good too]
-LB:  Kuretake mdl2 (3/0/0) ->  ^ ^ ^
 
Booster:
-Full Armament = 160 / 374
 
Stats:
AP: 29,910
KE: 1723
CE: 310
TE: 968
RR: 988
Turning: 755
ER: 4709
Load: 4,767/ 4,952
 
Tactics:  Pop Shot.  You won't actually end up trading fire now lol.
 
Other Options: Suzu Gen and Tokonatsu Booster if you're REALLY desperate for those incredible boost numbers.

you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#7 Nova313

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 12:38 PM

Thanks for the info!  I swear I learn something new about this game every time I come to this forum.  So I spent about 30 min with the recommended changes you and Nescient posted.  Here are my questions and observations.

 

 

Dominant Legend

Observations:

1. The AC feels slower than the initial set up at first.  Probably due to the fact I'm not HB as much.  However, I do have much better control and though my turning performance stats has not increased much I "feel" like I'm turning better now.  It is much easier for me to hold a flank now than when I had the high power boosters.

2.  I have to be more conscience of my energy management now, however, I do not feel starved for energy.

3.  It's time for me to finally learn how to identify missile profiles and how to dodge them...help...

4.  AP and defenses are lower but the FCS/ Head combo allows me more range and time to dodge in coming fire.  Especially CE.

5.  I love the extra ammo the mags provide.  I think these are my new fav shoulder equips.  The 0/0/3 tuning on the Sawa is nice.  I'm keeping it!

 

Questions:

1.  I'm assuming when you recommended Wakakusa mdl1 you intended for them to be used in rapid fire fashion.  Wouldn't it be better to use PMG instead (or even plasmas)?  Face time will be about the same but I think DPS is higher with PMG.

2.  Any suggestions for how to handle Tanks?  I don't think a single AN/SRB-105 is going to get it done.  Plus the tank is just gonna soak up any TE damage I can muster.

 

 

Nescient:

Observations:

1.  I like the BA-309/ Ge-D-G23 combo you recommended.  It's about the same speed as what Dominant's set up was (slightly faster) but with much better energy recovery.  The capacity isn't bad either.

2.  Since there were no suggestions on CQC weapons I got brave and swapped the dual SR for a AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo (wanted mdl3 but it doesn't fit).  It hits pretty hard but I need to be up close.  I was using the FA-215 FCS at the time of testing.

3.  The second gen TE shield does provide a decent amount of CE coverage.  I like it.

 

Questions:

1.  Any suggestions on FCS?  I don't really like the 16 hit box while using AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo.  I was thinking maybe the Fe-L-E28.  Any thoughts?  Also with this set up how would you recommend I handle a tank?  Pray for out bounds...lol.  I highly doubt I would win a damage race...

2.  Thoughts/ recommendations as far as my new weapons loadout?  Sawa 0/0/3, 2nd gen TE shield, AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo in bays, dual mag in shoulders.

3.  I decided to keep Dominant's recommended frame.  Do you have any frame suggestions that may be better?

 

Thanks both of you!  If anyone else has some input please feel free to chime in.  I am all about constructive criticism, it only makes us stronger. 



#8 DominantLegend

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 02:11 PM

FYI, I meant 0/0/3 on wakakusa (accuracy tune) and 0/3/0 on X00 (rapid tune). You could rapid tune Wakakusa too, but it's already long lock times shouldn't be made longer.

 

1.  I'm assuming when you recommended Wakakusa mdl1 you intended for them to be used in rapid fire fashion.  Wouldn't it be better to use PMG instead (or even plasmas)?  Face time will be about the same but I think DPS is higher with PMG.
 

 

 

PMGs and Plasma are both heavily range-limited to under 150m. Since you're mostly sniping and now have 250m lock range, you want something you can spam at many ranges. PMGs also do not break KE shields, and Plasma requires enemies to be very, very slow to hit. Wakakusa can double as both a laser sniper (fully charged, 1500 MV) or a lightweight/quad melter (no charge, rapid fire 1000 TE shots).
 
2.  Any suggestions for how to handle Tanks?  I don't think a single AN/SRB-105 is going to get it done.  Plus the tank is just gonna soak up any TE damage I can muster.

 

 

Long-range sawa and shield could take care of tanks. You have 10 Shots. Even if you half-charged them (charge starts at 30, reaches 100% damage at 80% charge, so half of a charge is ~75% damage) you can throw out 7000TE and 3800 KE by just popping out of cover. The best way to handle tanks here is to just be very, very patient.

 

For tanks, I'd just sit behind a building, reload, pop out, fire at the tank without waiting for lock on, and then pop right back in. The only tank weapons that can reliably hit a lightweight at 200m+ away are laser cannons, really, unless you run into an exceptional sniper cannon player. Buildings are your friends. Chip away their AP a few thousand at a time. Even 4000 TE defense isn't going to prevent 10 shots of X00 from making a heavy dent. 

 

 

 

Use scan mode to identify each missile type by the damage listed. TE missiles and Vertical missiles can usually be baited to go behind you, CE missiles and VTF missiles usually are slow enough you can put a building between you and them. 

 

 

 

If you dropped the sawa like Sash suggests (his frame is exactly what I suggested, except he has the weight savings to run CA-215 in stead of 309), then I'd do pretty much what he says except instead of pulse guns, I'd have a KE shield and wakakusa. I'm also not a fan of 309+vital, especially when you're trying to fit more weight, but it probably gives you more versatility on maps (usually it's a permaglide scan mode setup) where you would drain your generator too fast and not find cover.



#9 Nova313

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 02:40 AM

Sash:

Observations:

1.  The dual Niodori mdl1 set up is amazing!  At full hit I'm taking about 10,000 AP from light TE defenses.  Even high TE defenses are taking effective damage if I can get the full spread to hit.  Simply beautiful!  And here I always thought dual PG was a no.

2.  Once again I love the Ge-D-G23/ BA-309 combo.  My fav Gen/ Booster combo so far.

3.  The CA-215 core definitely outclasses the CA-309 Jackpod variant.  I tried but I could not find any reason outside of weight to not run it.  I will admit that the car door is not my cup of tea visually.  However, this core simply works.  It just does.

4.  I was surprised to find that reload was about the same between the Kuretake and the Sawa (Sawa was slightly quicker).  I don't know why the SR felt so much longer to reload but it did until I actually tested side by side.  Mind blown.

 

Questions:

1.  You seem to be against Sawa on a lightweight.  Would you mind giving me your thoughts on this?  Is it folly to snipe with a Sawa?  I'm definitely not opposed to your suggestions as you can see from my observations.  This is more me trying to find something that is a little off the beaten path.

2.  I'm not seeing where the AM/SRA-133 is outclassing the Kuretake mdl2 in practical application outside of more ammo.  I know on the stat page max range and lock on are better but honestly I didn't see a huge difference while testing.  Due to my FCS I can't take advantage of either weapons max range.  And due to dual subcomps base lock on isn't that far off from each other.  Am I missing something?

 

@ Dominant Legend:  I rapid spec'd the Sawa and Acc spec Wakakusa.  Much better.  However, I do have to admit I like the dual Niodori set up better, I just can't run them with a Sawa.  I don't know, Wakakusa definitely gives me range but if I find myself in a situation where I'm being rushed I doubt it hits hard enough to make them back off before taking some serious damage.  I'm going to keep at it and maybe they will eventually grow on me.  We'll see.  More testing and familiarization needs to take place before the final call.



#10 Nescient

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 08:28 AM

Nescient:

Observations:

1.  I like the BA-309/ Ge-D-G23 combo you recommended.  It's about the same speed as what Dominant's set up was (slightly faster) but with much better energy recovery.  The capacity isn't bad either.

2.  Since there were no suggestions on CQC weapons I got brave and swapped the dual SR for a AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo (wanted mdl3 but it doesn't fit).  It hits pretty hard but I need to be up close.  I was using the FA-215 FCS at the time of testing.

3.  The second gen TE shield does provide a decent amount of CE coverage.  I like it.

 

Questions:

1.  Any suggestions on FCS?  I don't really like the 16 hit box while using AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo.  I was thinking maybe the Fe-L-E28.  Any thoughts?  Also with this set up how would you recommend I handle a tank?  Pray for out bounds...lol.  I highly doubt I would win a damage race...

2.  Thoughts/ recommendations as far as my new weapons loadout?  Sawa 0/0/3, 2nd gen TE shield, AM/SGA-204/ Niodori mdl1 combo in bays, dual mag in shoulders.

3.  I decided to keep Dominant's recommended frame.  Do you have any frame suggestions that may be better?

 

Thanks both of you!  If anyone else has some input please feel free to chime in.  I am all about constructive criticism, it only makes us stronger. 

 

1. glance isn't ideal for CQC but it offers the best balance. 

2. Use a heat pile behind the karasawa or heat howis if you're up to it.  Either has more CQC potential than shotty/pulse without needing wide lock FCS support, load/drain etc. Whatever you do, take advantage of the mags. If the manual backups are putting too much stress on the X00, use K37.

3. I don't like AD134 but it works. Personally id use kochi or utsusemi mdl1.


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#11 Sash

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 11:01 AM

Sash:

Observations:

1.  The dual Niodori mdl1 set up is amazing!  At full hit I'm taking about 10,000 AP from light TE defenses.  Even high TE defenses are taking effective damage if I can get the full spread to hit.  Simply beautiful!  And here I always thought dual PG was a no.

 

It's strong stuff. Alternatively, if you feel like a badass, you can just equip a UW and try to kick people. It works at the same ranges that the Pulse Guns will, and you're quick enough to get one in and get out. You probably won't kill in most cases, but you have Snipers, so you could finish off anyone with those. I'm not joking here lol, I've done this XD

 

 

2.  Once again I love the Ge-D-G23/ BA-309 combo.  My fav Gen/ Booster combo so far.

 

It's one of the most common Gen/Booster combos. It works really well, as you can tell.

 

 

3.  The CA-215 core definitely outclasses the CA-309 Jackpod variant.  I tried but I could not find any reason outside of weight to not run it.  I will admit that the car door is not my cup of tea visually.  However, this core simply works.  It just does.

 

It's a strong core lol. Sometimes if I have weight issues I don't run it, but I typically find some way to fit it on all of my builds that can take advantage of it.

 

4.  I was surprised to find that reload was about the same between the Kuretake and the Sawa (Sawa was slightly quicker).  I don't know why the SR felt so much longer to reload but it did until I actually tested side by side.  Mind blown.

 

Mmm... k. Zlatkos reload kinda quick for Snipers. If you wanna spam them blue lock, just change to 199 Firing Stability Arms.

 

 

Questions:

1.  You seem to be against Sawa on a lightweight.  Would you mind giving me your thoughts on this?  Is it folly to snipe with a Sawa?  I'm definitely not opposed to your suggestions as you can see from my observations.  This is more me trying to find something that is a little off the beaten path.

 

If you want to Karasawa on a Light, run two. Run some Ammo mags, try out an FCS like the Seher (One of the Usugomo series I think), find yourself a head with good camera (or don't) and slug away at the least expecting target you see on the battlefield. With 20 Karasawa shots, you can deal insane damage, but you're incredibly vulnerable when charging and immediately after charging. I do this kind of shit on a Quad most of the time, so I can tank opposing sniper fire and such while I recover. Since you're a LW, you'll not be weathering fire well at all - but while you will out-trade most things out there, you don't have a whole ton of AP and defenses to take hits with, so you'll need to pick your shots a bit more cautiously than those that a Quad would have the luxury of taking. 

 

If you go the Sawa route, working with Piles will be an obvious backup, since you'll get 10 shots between your Mifengs if you pack dual ammo mags. Get good with those and between the Sawas and Piles, nothing on the battlefield is safe. Piles cuz, well, they don't impact the frame and FCS choices that much, and they compliment the reserve mags of course.

 

Do note that you will attract tryhards with this kind of setup, and they don't take kindly to dying/losing 20k due to your shit.

 

 

2.  I'm not seeing where the AM/SRA-133 is outclassing the Kuretake mdl2 in practical application outside of more ammo.  I know on the stat page max range and lock on are better but honestly I didn't see a huge difference while testing.  Due to my FCS I can't take advantage of either weapons max range.  And due to dual subcomps base lock on isn't that far off from each other.  Am I missing something?

 

If you're up close there's not a huge difference. Cycads lock faster, and sometimes that's all you need. They also hit harder from further out. I like them more, is all. Sometimes I run one Cycad and one Zlatko - best of both worlds and all.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
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#12 Nescient

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 12:01 PM

what recon do you use?

 

 

If you want to Karasawa on a Light, run two. 

 

naw. 


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#13 Nova313

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 12:36 AM

@Sash:  Dude, you are crazy and brilliant at the same time...lol.  You're like an evil mad scientist.  I was with Nescient at first.  Dual Sawa on a LBP is straight up suicidal.  But I tried it and I love it...lol (guess I'm suicidal now).  OMG the power!!!  I can see why you run this on a quad.  And it certainly would be different running it on a LBP as a sniper variant.  I think as long as I don't full charge I have lock advantage on KE snipers.  I can't remember what the FCS/ camera formula is to figure out lock times so I don't know for sure...anyone?  Weight and energy were an issue so I had to go back to the makibashira/ BA-214 combo and use the smaller mag to make it all fit (that also meant no CA-215).  Another issue is that I'm screw'd if someone brings a gen2 TE shield to the party.  I'm not great with piles but punching things in the face was oddly satisfying...lol.  I will need some serious training before I could use them competitively.  Is it even possible to catch an airborne target with those things?  Or is it simply for tank killing and catching folks who drained their gens?  I can't seem to hit anything that isn't on treads...lol.  Btw, not that I would care much cause it's a game but do folks really get upset for running this weapons set up?  I mean really, I'm in a LBP.  If the wind blows the wrong way I'm losing AP...

 

@Nescient:  I'm running the sticky recon.  I think it has like a 300m range and I can pop 5 of them.  Do you suggest something else?  I've been running stickies pretty much since I got the game.  I've played around with the floaties and the hover type but they didn't really seem to suit my play style very well.

 

@Dominant Legend:  I meant to get back with you on missile dodging.  You say TE and Verts can be baited to fly behind me...how do I do that?  Boosting forward?  Seems like I'd be flying right into them?  I've gotten pretty used to dodging/ outrunning VTFs now thanks to the practice tank.  However, ACVD doesn't provide a lot of cover on some maps.  What is the recommended strategy for dodging HSM and CE missiles?  I'm sure those are the more common ones.  Anyone up for a turkey shoot?  I'm willing to let you shoot at me for free so I can learn how to dodge these things...lol.

 

So I have a question.  Are Murakumos a better option to run than piles?  I don't see folks mention them on their competitive builds much and I've always wondered about them.  I've played around with them before.  The unlimited ammo seems enticing but is it worth it?



#14 Nescient

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 02:06 PM

@Sash:  Dude, you are crazy and brilliant at the same time...lol.  You're like an evil mad scientist.  I was with Nescient at first.  Dual Sawa on a LBP is straight up suicidal.  But I tried it and I love it...lol (guess I'm suicidal now).  OMG the power!!!  I can see why you run this on a quad.  And it certainly would be different running it on a LBP as a sniper variant.  I think as long as I don't full charge I have lock advantage on KE snipers.  I can't remember what the FCS/ camera formula is to figure out lock times so I don't know for sure...anyone?  Weight and energy were an issue so I had to go back to the makibashira/ BA-214 combo and use the smaller mag to make it all fit (that also meant no CA-215).  Another issue is that I'm screw'd if someone brings a gen2 TE shield to the party.  I'm not great with piles but punching things in the face was oddly satisfying...lol.  I will need some serious training before I could use them competitively.  Is it even possible to catch an airborne target with those things?  Or is it simply for tank killing and catching folks who drained their gens?  I can't seem to hit anything that isn't on treads...lol.  Btw, not that I would care much cause it's a game but do folks really get upset for running this weapons set up?  I mean really, I'm in a LBP.  If the wind blows the wrong way I'm losing AP...

 

sigh... its an ok setup. Thing is you end up compromising the X00s DPS with maki. Lock rate is similar, depends on the SR and tune... Im guessing that power zlatko vs accuracy ksaw is in the lasers favor, cycad probably locks faster with a point or two in accuracy out but X00 might have enough muzzle to beat it at range?

 

Anyways, you should always try to start charging from behind cover. Its way too easy to get tagged by an impact weapon and botch the shot if you're charging in the open. 

 

Stickys. Perfect. You wanna be able to bullseye a womp rat with these. If you space them properly it makes keeping track of targets while charging relatively easy. Sticking the target is even better, though its difficult. I try to arrange them far enough away that I know if my targets attempting to close while I'm charging. As long as they stay red you have a rough idea where to shoot, pop out and do so (at max charge damn you...) or cancel the charge and initiate plan b if they go blue. 

 

On that note, you overhyped CA-215. Yes, its a nice part with good AP for the weight. Jackpod has one major advantage you overlooked, recon count. 90 is kindve absurd for most applications but makes the long range tracking recon viable. It also means that you can afford to dump stickies for days, i.e. not have to worry about wasting unlikely shots going for a stick. One more thing (jackie chan cartoon, anyone?) high recon capacity does is make the junk sticky less crippling vs 209. CQC builds, or those desperate for every last bit of drain they can get, can net somewhere around 300 regen using jackpod/junk vs 215/209. Which sounds small, but core and recon (I'm insecure on this but too bored to double check) drain at all times, it should help curb nowaki's frightening drain value....

 

Normally its not worth it, it probably won't make much difference in the outcome of focused 1v1s, it may be enough to keep you relevant in a team fight provided you don't have to dodge much.


 Another issue is that I'm screw'd if someone brings a gen2 TE shield to the party. 

 

This is the other reason my suggestions better. Dual sawa light biped is good at dealing obscene sucker punch damage and nothing else.


I'm not great with piles but punching things in the face was oddly satisfying...lol.  I will need some serious training before I could use them competitively.  Is it even possible to catch an airborne target with those things?  Or is it simply for tank killing and catching folks who drained their gens?  I can't seem to hit anything that isn't on treads...lol.  Btw, not that I would care much cause it's a game but do folks really get upset for running this weapons set up?  I mean really, I'm in a LBP.  If the wind blows the wrong way I'm losing AP...

 

Piles are finicky, realistically you're on point. As a backup to X00 its only there for tanks. With practice they're flexible, Nowaki's fast enough to hit anything. Theres a long list of pilers I've fell victim to in builds with over 400HB. Im not a member of the pile pile, I find the other melees to be more versatile, but a single pile is hands down the greatest come-back weapon in the game. 

 

People don't like getting 1HKO'd. Realistically the gun meta is a static piece of shit, if you piled that shit out of someone its on them. What Sash meant is a top tier weapon set tends to warrant attention; in a team match, they're going to be gunning for you early because A. If the wind blows the wrong way I'm losing AP...​ you're fucking dead and B. letting anything with that much DPS survive long enough to use it is unwise. C. A lot of people are well aware of LBPs weight constraints, even in a duel, if someone takes a 20K wap, they stand a good chance of rushing you into the ground. The bigger caveat is battle royal, where LWs tend to attract attention to begin with, the weapons put it into abomination territory (not warranted but no less a bullet magnet than LRJs, sawa quads or freakishly accurate SCTs), i.e.  the sort of thing that warrants team work...

 

​moral of the story: its one of those highly unstable builds, you can look at it as high risk/reward, I see it as a gamble.


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#15 Sash

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 02:20 PM

@Sash:  I can't remember what the FCS/ camera formula is to figure out lock times so I don't know for sure...anyone? 

Uhh... Lock-on Range = FCS lock range * ((Head's Camera performance/1000) +.5)

 
Lock-on Time:
no subcomps: weapon lock-on / fcs lock computation as a percentage / 60 
 

@Sash:  Is it even possible to catch an airborne target with those things?  Or is it simply for tank killing and catching folks who drained their gens? 

 
It takes practice. You eventually learn to recognize where your opponent is going to be, and you just pile where they will end up preemptively. I guess this is called 3-Dimensional Melee. Something that works well is dropping down on people and piling, where they can't evade if they don't see you, and leaping up at people off of a wall-jump and throwing out a pile to catch someone trying to flank you.
 
One ironic thing about this is that your ability to predict your opponent doesn't work if your opponent is, dare I say, bad - because they'll do shit you won't expect. For now, just focus on piling anything that resists the Karasawas.
 
Ah, and I recommend this as a Conquest build. It is not suited to duels for the reasons brought up regarding TE Shields.
 

@Sash: Btw, not that I would care much cause it's a game but do folks really get upset for running this weapons set up?  I mean really, I'm in a LBP.  If the wind blows the wrong way I'm losing AP...

 

You are running a strategy that relies upon and often results in killing people extremely quickly. It is also doubly effective when those people aren't paying attention to you. Yes, this is a game we're talking about, but some take it more seriously than others, and you will be killing people without permitting them a chance to retaliate, and that might get on people's nerves.

 

Also, while you are weak to a gust of wind, you are just as quick as the wind. Smacking someone for huge damage and then escaping unscathed seems to be a bit of a trigger for some folks. Just keep in mind that you might get some nasty messages for beating people with a build like this.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 


#16 Nescient

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 02:58 PM

@Dominant Legend:  I meant to get back with you on missile dodging.  You say TE and Verts can be baited to fly behind me...how do I do that?  Boosting forward?  Seems like I'd be flying right into them?  I've gotten pretty used to dodging/ outrunning VTFs now thanks to the practice tank.  However, ACVD doesn't provide a lot of cover on some maps.  What is the recommended strategy for dodging HSM and CE missiles?  I'm sure those are the more common ones.  Anyone up for a turkey shoot?  I'm willing to let you shoot at me for free so I can learn how to dodge these things...lol.

 

So I have a question.  Are Murakumos a better option to run than piles?  I don't see folks mention them on their competitive builds much and I've always wondered about them.  I've played around with them before.  The unlimited ammo seems enticing but is it worth it?

 

no offense but the practice tank spams low tier VTFs from the ground. Out in the wild they're going to be used with an impact weapon or from point blank.

 

Murakumos vs Piles... They both have there uses and optimal combos. Since you've got laser drain going on, the pile is great. Aside from the obvious static drain difference, piles hit hard regardless of speed. Murakumos require a lot of energy to reach pile damage and it takes two to do what a single mifeng can. 


Lastly, good call on switching to BA-214. This setup throws standard procedure out the window, you may be better off with a low consumption (probably not, but this is your option if you want decent DPS)... Try out BA-124 and the junk high power (it covers ground faster than 214 with less ~350 less drain).


EDIT: WAY TO GO SASH, YOU FUCKED UP MY RANT.


 Anyone up for a turkey shoot?  I'm willing to let you shoot at me for free so I can learn how to dodge these things...lol

 

fuck ya, ill shoot you with whatever you want. There are a few I struggle with, maby we can make a game out of it.

 

On topic, you never want to dodge with herz. Most of the missiles you've listed aren't terribly effective through walls. 

 

TE are either slow enough to back-pedal or fast and low tracking, strafe with high boost. Old verts are relatively easy to dodge, just be aware that bacon (first gen) has enough tracking to pose a threat to mid-heavys. As a light biped you can pretty much avoid all damage with normal boost. The two new ones can be a major PITA depending on the situation. Jellys are similar to VTF/HSM, a well timed high boost to the side and slightly into it. Jade requires a more aggressive approach to break in a single movement. CE missiles are easier to avoid, if you can out-time jellys or HSM nothing in that lineup should phase you. The only stand-outs are dual 6 lock small missiles, they're often slow enough to back pedal into structure. Otherwise, they're somewhat susceptible to the ground if you can make a steep descent, or 3+ HBs chained away from but inside of there turning radius. One or two of the AS missiles are also very accurate. The CE missile arms are another story...


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#17 DominantLegend

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 03:01 PM

 

 

@Dominant Legend:  I meant to get back with you on missile dodging.  You say TE and Verts can be baited to fly behind me...how do I do that?  Boosting forward?  Seems like I'd be flying right into them?  I've gotten pretty used to dodging/ outrunning VTFs now thanks to the practice tank.  However, ACVD doesn't provide a lot of cover on some maps.  What is the recommended strategy for dodging HSM and CE missiles?  I'm sure those are the more common ones.  Anyone up for a turkey shoot?  I'm willing to let you shoot at me for free so I can learn how to dodge these things...lol.

 

It's about using the tracking delay with each missile to open a window where you can change direction faster than they can. The faster the missile (top cruising speed) the less time you have to execute the maneuver in full. The tighter the missile's turning radius (missile guidance) the more dramatic your maneuver needs to be in term of distance, and the more time it will take.

 

 

The way I see it, we're talking about 2 different ACs in this thread.

 

1. A long range Karasawa Nowaki sniper Build

2. A close range dual pulse gun rusher build

 

Don't try to do both in the same build, and instead make them map-dependent and switch between them.

 

1 needs to be a high load capacity, longer range AC with dual shoulder arms and high recovery generators. High boost power and normal boost accel is what matters. You need a fast locking FCS with decent range. You need lots of recons. You need a KE shield and dual ammo. This build is good for maps with lots of cover and aerial combat. You need something that can break KE shields after the sawa is purged. You will be struggling to meet the weight cap.

 

2 needs to be a low drain, short range AC with high firing stability arms, long/infinite glide boost, and high capacity generators. High boost drain is what matters. You need a wide FCS, range doesn't matter. You don't need a lot of recons. No KE shield required. Shoulder units help, but aren't necessary. This build is good for maps with little cover and ground combat. You need something that can break TE shields. You will probably have more weight cap than you now what to do with.

 

The entire AC has to be built in harmony. If you use Nowaki in close range, then you have to joust with them, because their drain and low turning becomes a problem with CQC and glide boost. So that means building the rest of the AC around that.



#18 Nova313

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 10:11 PM

@Nescient: Lol...abomination indeed.  I thought the exact same thing when I tested it.  Anyway, I'm definitely down to dance.  I'm going to be on DCUO tonight but if you are free tomorrow night I'll be on at 10pm est.  I should have my new mic by then as well. I PM'd you earlier saying the same thing though...I guess this is more for everyone else to know.

 

@Sash:  Thanks for those formulas.  I knew them at one point but it's been over a year now.  

 

@Dominant Legend:  Cool info on missile dodging.  I'm hoping I can hook up with Nescient tomorrow night and get some practice in.  Btw,you are correct and that was exactly what I was planning on doing.  However, I was toying with the idea of swapping Nowaki for Snowden if I went the way of CQC.  But for now Nowaki is the build.



#19 DominantLegend

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 10:47 PM

Nowaki can do jousting better than snowden, especially with tokonatsu and shotguns, but snowden dances better and has vastly better defense.

 

I vastly prefer Nowaki as a mid/long range leg, though.



#20 Sash

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 11:14 PM

Nitpicks:

 

@Dom

 

RE Sawa Light version.

 

"You need a KE shield "

 

Why, if I might ask?

 

"You need something that can break KE shields after the sawa is purged."

 

Why is this an issue? Ten Shots is more than enough to pop off any KE Shield. This is only a problem in a duel, as far as I can see. If he goes the Dual Karasawa route, this is a nonissue, and he likely won't live long enough - nor will the fights last long enough - for all twenty shots to be fired.

 

 

RE "A close range dual pulse gun rusher build"

 

These are sinfully good and I highly recommend one to any aspiring LW player who wants to learn CQB and be effective with it on a LW. I will reiterate that a proper AC of this archetype is brutally effective as necessary, and I suggest that Nova give it a proper shot. It's a build that's good on basically every map, and murders Quads.

 

Regarding that, though, run VTFs instead of Amps and back up the Pulse Guns with Shotguns to get coverage over the entire metagame. Joust in on a Yasakani FCS, wait until you have 3 locks, and let loose with your pulses or shotguns alongside the VTFs when you reach the appropriate range/get lock. This is easily the most viable LW CQB combo in the game outside of Melee, and utterly obliterates any target you can get in on and outflank. The only con is having to play on Herz. 

 

The only thing potentially more destructive to every build in the game that comes in a LW CQB package is maybe a HCWA LRJ.

 

 

Anyhow, I think this is all I have to say about that topic and it looks like the build is pretty well sorted out. Glad we could lend a helping hand.


you fucking tryhard

 Rix-Today at 9:17 PM

I banned someone because they posted porn in a porn topic

 

AvalonFive-Today at 9:25 PM
I like being both top and bottom so the middle sounds nice
 
Kappa

 





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