Jump to content


Photo

ACFA vs 2 opponents


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:38 PM

I know it's an old game, but I'm relative new to this.   Can someone give me some advice on how to fight against two players? I use a light weight ac.



#2 Zenith2025

Zenith2025

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts

Posted 02 December 2016 - 11:10 AM

Wait till u have to fight five..

#3 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:38 PM

5... no kidding.  I give up...



#4 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:00 PM

wait a second

 

do you mean the 2 v 1 fight against Wynn D. and Roy at the end of the Orca story or two human players? Very different strategies for each fight.

​Also, the 5 v 2 fight is laughable, you can cheese two of them before they ever land and your ally can actaully hold his own in a 3v2. Don't give up yet.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#5 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 02 December 2016 - 07:59 PM

Just 1 vs 2 or more in general.  I did cheesed out on the 4 v 2 mission through, but yeah, I'm more interested vs human and not so much on completing the game.

 

I guess when vs 2 acs, you have to keep them in a straight line. so you can dodge both in coming attacks at the same time? something like that. like how to position yourself and set up an attack kind the advice.

 

My ac can go fast, but has low ap (27569). I use hit and run tactic when practicing with white glint.  vs human player 1 on 1, shot gun gives me most trouble.



#6 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 03 December 2016 - 03:27 PM

Fighting 2 human opponents is a nightmare unless you completely outclass them in either Player skill, have a radically better build, or preferably, both.

 

Ultimately you need to pick on the weakest link and take them out as quickly as possible so that you can fight the more dangerous opponent. Your best bet is to actually separate them, jousting tends to do OK. As to builds like Raiden Quads. Due to how much damage you can inflict in a single hit.

​Are you on PS3 or Xbox?


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#7 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 03 December 2016 - 05:28 PM

I'm on PS3, there are still people play it, if you go around evening in the weekend.(more often the place is empty trough) On one saturday night I went there around 1am, there were a group what seemed to be jap players playing.

That's good idea to separte them and kill the weaker one first. Other than jousting, what other technique I can use to separte them? On a more random question, how often do people look at the radar? I imagine more adavence player don't even look at it for faster reaction.

this guy playing style really inspired me, he's quick turns and qucik boosts are so fast.



#8 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:09 AM

Keep in mind that Solterelor and Sightlock, Sightlock in particular, are very good. I never had the pleasure of playing Solterelor, but I played with Sightlock often enough, this vid really doesn't do the players justice since its pretty early on in ACFA. Additionally, both of those players on Xbox 360.

​Apart from jousting, learn to hit people with high power weapons. Raiden Quads in particular (Although I also like Raiden Tanks) can demolish an opponent with a few good hits. Learn to manage your EN and imo stay away from low power boosters. You really want to be able to control the range of the fight. I would also suggest learning to second stage quick boost (SSQB).

​Message me on PSN (roganc666) and i'll play some ACFA with you. Just make sure you put "ACFA" in the title, because I have a habit of ignoring messages.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#9 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:43 PM

That's amazing, you actaully played with Sightlocks. I have seen some of Solterelor other videos, I like this one the most for some reason.

SSQB is hard, I try to practice whenever I remember, but still long way to go before I can do it freely when fighting. My aiming with a heavy weapon is pretty bad, I'm working on that too. My EN management is a bit better, but not mistake free.  My boosters may be ok, I will post my ac setup later.  I'm not good with heavy Acs. If I use one, I will stay in the same spot and let people shoot at me... light and mid weight are easier for me to handle.

Ok, I will message you, thanks for your inputs, I have something to work with.



#10 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 08 December 2016 - 10:41 AM

heavy weapons are temperamental, a handful are considered competitive in pvp but most don't have the hit rate to be worth the weight. Something like a grenade launcher really needs AA or a PA breaker to stand any chance of connecting for full damage.

 

Depredation is generally the easiest way out. Assuming both opponents can evade enough to force aggression out of you, you're screwed. Often theres a dominant player, but the weaker of the two can always employ counter strategies like taking cover on Parabolic Grove or dropping offensive tactics once APs red that give his/her team mate an insurmountable advantage or force you to fight them both.

 

 

Optimal success rate hinges on draconian tactics- as the solo you hold the moral high ground by default, do not bring a cos-play AC to a 1v2 you want to win.

 

 

The basic strategy revolves around zoning and range control, or as you put it 'keep them in a straight line'. The easiest way to accomplish this is to build for mobility and endurance advantage, resilience to pressure is key. Offense needs to hit consistently, low drain, and have enough ammo to cover mid-close range for two ACs in a 10 minute fight. PA attenuation is a must, there is almost no way around this as even 1v2 setups can be ammo starved by moderately smart gankers. Because MGs and shotguns require aggressive (meaning not evasive) movement patterns to yield efficient damage they generally aren't the best option. 

 

 

Ammo is your achilles heel. A lot of it will be spent battle star galactica style, flaking your enemies approach angles. 

 

As a gunner there is no fool-proof way around this elaborate dance in which, yes, the goal is to keep them in a straight line. Due to the underlying, mathematical, mechanics of the game you settle for one simple, general, rule of thumb: Never engage one without the other in sight (meaning breaking a 100% defensive pattern, making no concessions to improve accuracy). If they can't catch up to you or stall you out of back-pedaling (which in this case refers to: the reactionary offensive stance you'll be aiming for when you choose to attack, which is basically tantamount to being where your friend expects you to be in a game of catch [blind-folded, triangulating position through empty bean can w/ string if its you vs two Japanese players])

 

Your mostly going to be looking for openings as they come in from mid-range. To get the most out of this positioning you obviously need clean sight lines at ~700 meters and to either be above your opponent, or equal to there altitude with an exit plan (so you're looking to be above both of them at all times to stretch that approach time, during which you pressure as much energy out of them as possible. Ideally you can get one of them to stress there energy capacity to the point that you can bait them to close (not cqc, close range is defined in this case by your speed and quick boost duration/reload relative to your opponents, generally 150-300 meters for a mid with light boost power, high power light weights can push that strike distance out to 400 or even 500 meters without over boost.) range. At this point the aggressor is likely assuming that you too cannot manage energy much longer, especially while airborne, and you can almost count on them continuing to fight post generator failure depending on how close there team mate is.

 

At this point your target cannot continue to evade for a fraction of a second. If the other player isnt within ~400 meters of you look for the stall in movement and learn to predict it, you want to rush them just a few tenths of a second before they lose momentum or stall your backpedal and square up for as long as it takes for your opponent to make another forward movement. If the other player is closing in, rush past the first one while switching targets. Do not bother trigger holding, you're currently in the bluff phase of a gank spank. Take a shot or two at player 2 as you chain QB into them.


Ideally, you catch player one in the no zone (close enough that you can overwhelm arm tracking cone in 1-2 QBs) while player 2 has panic rushed from 500-700 meters (from behind his/her team mate,  which coincides with 800-1200 meter sweet spot where the typical support sniper feels safe and has some bearing on the fight). This is the part you intuitively grasped that leads to "keeping them in a straight line".

 

Player 2 likely has no intention of fighting you head on, 9/10 that are scared enough to be banking in the first place are making a bee line for ~150 meters behind there team mate to tank some damage while the two reposition and possibly switch to mid range batteries to ensure you cannot capitalize on taking there blind spot. Bluffing intensifies as you and player two approach, you're looking to pass way over or under them (though altitude doesnt matter much unless you start this all too soon or too early, in which case player 2 will likely abort and feign retardation, aiming to drag you into a fight that player one can punish). Rules of altitude aside, you continue chain boosting forward/side towards player 2.


ideals and realities clash here. If you're up AP in the fight or know that player 2 is beneath you and thereby easily rattled, aim your qb chain to land with your AC facing them right at kissing distance. Stall, take height if you forgot rule #1 u filthy casul, and light player 2s back side up for .5-1 second. 

 

However if you aren't boss of the room its likely a better idea to straighten out and over boost past player 2 rather than chain through the whole approach. It all comes down to that your fast:there fast ratio, the more in your favor the more aggressively you can play, the less the more you have to hold that jousting pattern and get your punches in brawl style, where glory rules (you take down player 1 as a show of force, player 2 be damned). 

 

Either way, line confirmed, this is jousting in a 1v2. 


Sadly this is the extent of your options, barring overwhelming skill advantage. However, if the two aren't host there are other methods of purification.

 

The most relevant factor is the map you're on. Cover makes speed and endurance less a necessity, and can be used to unleash some devastating traps on overtly aggressive duo's. I've always done better turtling the old fashioned way.


theres some depth to go into here but as a fresh PvP player you're much better off observing players in the open till you've got a feel for the games immense lag factor.


Two things can make a standard A-B tier AC, one not designed to compensate for a second opponent, stand out as a bank fighter: Blades and assault armor.  

 

Dual blades stun lock opponents so hard that the recoil ejects you from the lobby.

 

Assault armor is dangerous for everyone involved and limited according to timer/kp output. It is generally not a good idea.


Close the door, put out the light.


#11 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:52 AM

Duel blades harness the power of the great penguin god of lag himself. however in exchange for this power he demands a sacrifice. you had better kill those opponents, else he shall take you.
Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#12 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:51 AM

TLDR version:

 

IME the japanese players are very honorable, 99% of the better players just want a good duel. Language barrier ensues. The best way to fight a 1v2 is to run out of bounds. Next match plan on doing the same thing but wait a moment and if you see one of them break off for the boundary you might get a semi-organized duel rotation. If there are many players in the room and you notice them running out of bounds at the start of the fight, follow suit and consider leaving after watching a few matches to look for an open lobby with less players.


Close the door, put out the light.


#13 rogan

rogan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • AC Type:
    Cannon whore

Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:13 AM

Round Robin Rooms. Those are fun when everyone agrees to them, but if you are a jerk and fail to wait your turn you are generally kicked from the room. I've seen it where its winner keeps going until someone knocks them out, then the next winner takes over.


Anything can be solved with the proper application of explosives

#14 Nescient

Nescient

    nope

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts
  • AC Type:
    Black, RWD
  • PSNID:
    T56
  • LIVE Tag:
    428/393 @7200/3600rpm

Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:50 AM

Gauging the rotation off observation is usually difficult at best. Most of the competitive lobbies I run into will pass you over if you don't check player count upon arrival. Assume you are at the bottom of the list till every player present in the lobby before you has died at least once. When you think your time has arrived float lazily towards the middle of the map at mid altitude, count the players running out of bounds. If everyone but the reigning champ takes a knee, prepare to fight for your life.

 

Often, real often, you'll get some static or simply confusion even after waiting longer than mathematically necessary. Etiquette for a new player in one of these rooms is to sit down and enjoy watching the fights from both players perspectives. If there are 5-6 players watching every match theres no reason to sideline the lobby for 5 minutes of non-verbal bickering only to get blown out in a few seconds.

 

 

 

THAT said, no one understands the plight of the FA newb better than veterans. The chance to stumble on PvP at random is not good.

 

SO!

 

non-verbal diplomacy goes something like this (assuming there are three ACs on the battlefield including yourself):

 

You've floated to the very center of the map, as far from any boundary as possible. Look for quick boost flare and watch the radar. Nine times out of ten the fight doesnt start till the first shot is fired (...). Whoever does so is subject to the ACFA rules of engagement, which specify that violence shall be used as an absolute final resort. 

 

TLDR rule #1 in this case is don't shoot anything. Don't get too close to either of your opponents and don't start panic QBing if ONE of them throws a few bullets your way. If both are shooting at you, consider it a message that you aren't wanted on the battlefield. 

 

 

 

The area boss is generally the authority on who's next. Take cues from that player and the host, if present (always mind the buttmad low tier host...)- if a subordinate is lobbing warning shots at you or gets up in your face when its past your turn, but the boss is showing no signs of aggression, consider it your match. One or both players might linger for awhile to gauge your intention/purity of character. Treat this as a 1v2 in terms of movement patterns. Stay on the defensive till the third wheel commits to one side or the other. 

 

If you're bad at PvP and meet with any degree of this vague resistance/butt sniffing, consider having your spot acknowledged in the rotation under these circumstances beginners luck and very honorabru. Even if you didn't have to deal with an application process for the fight, there is a very good chance you'll be ejected from the room within 3-5 matches. The group I'm most familiar with are nice about it, but apologies are not to be expected. Nor should it be interpreted as a typical gamer elitist harshing new comers. Intermingling nationalities cause (connectivity) problems in duels, if you're the foreign guy in a room listed as Japan Server the issue multiplies with each added player. So, sadly, to keep the game coughing along roughly its always in the hosts best interest to seek out the nearest players.

 

 

Meta techniques:

 

While you really should be going out of bounds, you don't have to be the first to do so. Rarely the rotation spins so wildly out of control that players forget there spot and the boss ends up with a free win as everyones killed themselves. Its perfectly fine to wait 10-20 seconds or more depending on how quickly everyone else leaves.

 

Going back to the third wheel scenario, laughter can be your most deadly weapon to disarm would be hazing attempts. You can easily master any one of the games interpretive dancing styles, learn japanese etc but usually mashing quick boost like you're trying to catch your tail stabilizer serves to illustrate that giving you a 1 on 1 fight would be nice for once! 

 

Build for armageddon. If you have a "best" build don't hesitate to bring it the first match, and don't switch out to something you know is worse next match following a loss. If you aren't good enough to be cocky about it, "reliance" on an S-tier build isnt going to upset anyone. Frankly its the least you can do...

 

POPOMEMES


Close the door, put out the light.


#15 Temjin

Temjin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:45 AM

Had the chance to fight with multi ACs tonight, it was my fault that three(may be only two) of them came at me together.  As soon the match start I jumped to one of the AC and started shooting, not knowing what they were doing, after couple matches I got kicked out of the lobby. May be it had more to do with my skills not up to their level of play, than not following the rules.

 

All three of them were heavy ACs, two tanks and a two-legged. One of them had a sniper cannon.  When I engaged one, and other would sniper me from mid to long range. Hard to keep track of the sniper AC.  I forgot about jousting, and circling one AC for too long, while leaving myself opened for the other AC to attack me.  Most of the time I didn't know which AC I was shooing at. Kind the like the mission Defeat Unknown NEXT + No Count.

 

If I were to fight them again, not sure what I would do differently other than keep my distance, and no circling.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq