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1.02 ACVD: Solo, LW Hybrid Blader project


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#1 Maker

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:17 PM

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Stats
Booster / HB : 198 / 400
KE / CE / TE : 1780 / 216 / 477

Weight: 6,232
Stability: 1,027
RR: 998
Turning: 754
E Recovery: 2,334

AP:24,274

Load tolerance = 20 under


Frame
HF-227 / CA-309 "Jackpod" / UTSUSEMI mdl.4 "Theodora" / NOWAKI mdl.2

Guts
FA-215 / GB-114 / TOKONATSU mdl.1 / RA-209

Weapons
MURAKUMO mdl.1 (3 pow) / BRA-125 (3 pow) / KMA-135S / AMAGOROMO mdl.1 / TGA-131

Now the AC performs about how I expect / want it to. The AC is used with my team, two guys who run jellyfish and i run the basic high accuracy spread missile with 3k impact. I'll hunt around for one opponent, preferably weak to KE. target him, pop a missile and run away as my allies hammer him with repeated jellyfish strikes. I never run too far though. If i see the opening, I take the Murikumo to them.

If there is no chance of blade strikes I simply shield up and do my LW gunnery style fighting, that I'm not apparently bad at. So there are a few things I'd like advice on.

A: KE defense. does the 4 or so points make that big of a difference when talking about the high damage rifles? If so how much?

B: is there a better FCS choice i SHOULD be running with this setup?

C: Battle rifle preference, I've gotten decent results with the BRA-125 and the first Burst model. the 125 seems to be more reliable in a strait fight, where the burst is a good sneak attack weapon. I tend to fight inside the 200 range or JUST outside of it with the BRA-125 but with the burst I found myself being even closer to the opponent in order to use my CE rifle of choice more effectively. This leaves me wondering if I have the correct FCS.

D: I worry a bit about the missiles. My friends feedback say they aren't doing bad but as a guy who stays skeptical I really have no idea if they are serving their purposes or not. I'm sure they stun some people sometimes. But their damage output is abysmal even on KE weak opponents and I'm not certain I shouldn't just swap over to the Jellyfish myself for a 3 man barrage as opposed to 2 jellys and some stuns.

E: yes the Murakumo works for me in this regard, the ability to outright cancel its swing at any point desired is very useful to me as I hated being held in place by the other blade choices + it does KE damage + its an infinite use blade... After a lot of tooling I really like it regardless of whatever shortcomings it may have. I see it as essentially a weaker infinite use Pyle. Kind of an armored core equivalent of a combat knife.

Operation Notes: While other shoulder units have worked in the past, flash rockets, heat rockets, chaff, Kiwi's etc: I am really enjoying having an offensive option in my shoulder slot. So far in 1v1's vs my bro (who regularly kicks my ass with my other AC's) this one's done fairly well, he fights Vore and Innsmouth very well with his Shielded HWB so now that I have a LW capable of fighting him on a regular basis and winning 50/50 or better I feel like I'm moving in the right direction.
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#2 LionelTeo

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:46 AM

KE defense. does the 4 or so points make that big of a difference when talking about the high damage rifles? If so how much?


Yes, very big difference. Although i can't give specifics because I don't have the formula. If Tansy is shot at within the optimal range (231) you will take more than 4 damage, probably half a thousand near to a thousands, however, if you buff out the damage completely, you will only take probably take less than half a thousands.

B: is there a better FCS choice i SHOULD be running with this setup?

It really depends on your weapon. If you are relying on battle rifle then FA-215 (quickest lock) FCS is the only option, other FCS won't work so well. For some weapons, like tansy, with a better base lock and better optimal range (253), then the wide lock (Fs-L-E28) is viable, mainly because you start locking at 250th range and usually this time the opponent will move forward to get in within 200 range of you, so you have 50 range ahead to start locking to balance out the lower lock on speed. However, in very special scenerios only you would then require of this, such as your build is running missiles as your main DPS, thus the tansy is throw in as secondary DPS.

Fs-L-M24 (Wide Lock, Least Energy Consumption)on the list is popular if your going pure melee.

USUGUMO mdl.2 is viable for a missile lock (main), sniper rifle hybrid build; I run this on my main with missile arms and sniper rifle as secondary for situation where the CE defense is buff out or if CIWs is interfering with the missiles.

USUGUMO mdl.3 is viable sniper rifle, PMGs (or even BRs) hybirds, or just pure sniper rifle.

C: Battle rifle preference, I've gotten decent results with the BRA-125 and the first Burst model. the 125 seems to be more reliable in a strait fight, where the burst is a good sneak attack weapon. I tend to fight inside the 200 range or JUST outside of it with the BRA-125 but with the burst I found myself being even closer to the opponent in order to use my CE rifle of choice more effectively. This leaves me wondering if I have the correct FCS.


Yes you have the correct FCS since BRA-125 have a base lock on above 100 and optimal range of 198.

D: I worry a bit about the missiles. My friends feedback say they aren't doing bad but as a guy who stays skeptical I really have no idea if they are serving their purposes or not. I'm sure they stun some people sometimes. But their damage output is abysmal even on KE weak opponents and I'm not certain I shouldn't just swap over to the Jellyfish myself for a 3 man barrage as opposed to 2 jellys and some stuns.


The stagger only last 2 seconds, my question would be what could you make use of this 2 seconds in a useful way. Currently, I have not really seen many very good stagger set up.

There is a few good options in shoulder unit.

Subcomputer with Sniper Rifle is a good option to go with Murakumo, it works if your running low on AP, or just find some good terrains to abuse. Basically its a good long range, close range set up in a sense that you can engage effectively at any range.

Energy AMPed with PG (or PMGs) and Shield are reliable to take out small units, making it a quick 3v4 for your team.

Dual Shoulder Jellyfish is useful to take out some small units, while SU-J-G27 is useful to do some decent damage to heavies.

The last one is to ditch the shoulder unit and use missiles arms WAB-123 or WAB-145 with good missiles lock on FCS.

HF-227 / CA-309 "Jackpod" / UTSUSEMI mdl.4 "Theodora" / NOWAKI mdl.2


If you are going battle rifle, then you will need to fire as fast as you can. AE-206L (191 Stability) allows you to fire faster with battle rifle

FA-215 / GB-114 / TOKONATSU mdl.1 / RA-209


Since your are a LW, you don't need a High Cap generator unless you are going PG or PMGs, rather, Suzumushi can keep your AC going while giving you lighter weight.
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#3 Not-Hunter

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:15 AM

Once you're blocking a weapon's max damage,the 4 points won't make too much of a difference. But crossing that threshold is important.

-Anyway, I think that the KE is a bit high. (Blocking high-power rifles is nice, but I'm not sure how useful it'll be for you. You can leave it if you feel it'll help)
-For the amount of speed you have, your turning is rather low. If you can make it work, then ignore me, but higher turning numbers allow you get behind someone and absolutely wreck them, especially with a BR like that.
-The arms. Like lionel said, F-STAB. You're going to need firing stability, especially if you're not using the 3BRs.
-The AP is very low. If you can find ways to raise it a bit without hurting the AC much, then great.
-As for your gen/booster combo.. It's a rather heavy combo to use on such a lightweight AC. I can definitely see the benefits of it in your raw speed numbers, but it hurts turning, and toko can be a bit unwieldy at times. I usually use BA-214/MAKIBASHIRA mdl.1 together, as they're lightweight and allow a wide range of movements that often leave enemies dizzy and confused. My usual speed numbers are between 360HB and 390HB.
-Shoulder units. Spreads are good for stun, and that's about it. If you know what you're doing, then stunning an enemy is great, and can give you an opportunity to wreck them with a kumo or a BR. However, if you feel that they're a bit weak, then you can try high-speed missiles. They're not quite as reliable with stun, but they're rather damaging to some ACs, and stun most things.
-FCS. If you choose to stick with that battle rifle, then use that FCS. It's terrible for missiles, but it's an absolute godsend for BRs. If you want better missile performance, then try FA-303 with the 3BR. Fs-L-E28 locks at longer ranges, but is more or less incompatible with most battle rifles, snipers, laser rifles, etc. 303 is a good close-range FCS that also supports most direct-attacking missile uses. E28 or USUGUMO mdl.2 is better with high-speeds or vert missiles.

FA-215 / GB-114 / TOKONATSU mdl.1 / RA-209


Since your are a LW, you don't need a High Cap generator unless you are going PG or PMGs, rather, Suzumushi can keep your AC going while giving you lighter weight.

High Cap generator allows you to cover large distances quickly and rush down unaware enemies. High-outputs are generally preffered when you're going to stay in one general area for the entire fight, and don't have the option to take cover. I would recommend that you stick with high capacity types, since you have a Kumo, and your AC doesn't seem built for frontal engagements on it's own.
EDIT: Also, MAKIBASHIRA mdl.1 is lighter than suzu.

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#4 Maker

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:28 PM

Trial basis so far is a swap between two parts to raise my KE and lower my weight slightly.

Core from Jackpod to CA-215

Gen from GB-114 to Makibashira mdl.1 possibly the mdl.2

reasons.

KE goes up past "tansy" levels so Im relatively safe from your standard non sniper KE weapons. That was one goal of this AC from the get go. Outside of that I don't feel much else is necessary right now. The legs are a possible change but they aren't breaking the design. Turning hasn't been a big issue unless I'm in over my head. Especially considering this things intended role is a support / harassment AC.

The generator may change over time depending on what Recoil resistance changes need to take place. Though I currently dislike the Mdl.2's lower output. the hit to energy going from 2,300 to 2,000 then to 1,900 worries me but is not battle tested. So I severely doubt i'll notice. Seeing as blading requires at least some stability the 998 this mech started out with may prove to be more valuable. Time will tell.

Also consider this an update to a work in progress. I have no intentions of dropping it any time soon.
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#5 Not-Hunter

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:57 PM

Gen from GB-114 to Makibashira mdl.1 possibly the mdl.2

The generator may change over time depending on what Recoil resistance changes need to take place. Though I currently dislike the Mdl.2's lower output. the hit to energy going from 2,300 to 2,000 then to 1,900 worries me but is not battle tested. So I severely doubt i'll notice.


Mdl.2 is pretty bad. It's heavier than mdl.1, has significantly less capacity, and only has 250 more output, which is nothing. Any of the other high cap generators outclass it.

Seeing as blading requires at least some stability the 998 this mech started out with may prove to be more valuable. Time will tell.

The easiest way to boost stability is to use an LRJ instead of LBP. I'm still not sure what LBPs do better than LRJs, as they're both about the same, except LRJs jump better and have higher stability.

EDIT: Not stability, recoil resistance.

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#6 Intalus

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:17 PM

Seeing as blading requires at least some stability the 998 this mech started out with may prove to be more valuable.


Could you elaborate some more?
 

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#7 Maker

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:04 PM

I was under the assumption that the stability rating kept you from being staggered and I was thinking that the stability might be more preferable to the additional KE defense if I was going to be landing blade strikes of any kind.

There's really not much more to my thought process so far than anything mentioned here. If I'm just wrong lemme know.
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#8 Not-Hunter

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

I was under the assumption that the stability rating kept you from being staggered and I was thinking that the stability might be more preferable to the additional KE defense if I was going to be landing blade strikes of any kind.

There's really not much more to my thought process so far than anything mentioned here. If I'm just wrong lemme know.

That's correct, except that recoil resistance determines stagger. Stability helps determine recoil resistance.

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#9 Intalus

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:48 PM

You will get movement staggered if a weapon's impact force exceeds 125% of the recoil resistance of your AC.

Stability helps determine recoil resistance.

Stability computation and stability control directly affects recoil resistance and stability. Stability does not directly affect recoil resistance.
 

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#10 Maker

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

http://i.imgur.com/kXy2kGQ.png

Booster: 199
HB: 402

KE / CE / TE: 1615 / 305 / 836

AP: 27,284
Weight: 6,109
Stability: 1,027
Recioil R: 990
Turning: 754
Energy R: 3,492

Frame
HF-227 / CA-309 / AGEMAKI mdl.1 "Alberto Gunther" / NOWAKI mdl.2

Guts
Fs-L-F03 / MAKIBASHIRA mdl.3 / TOKONATSU

Recon
RA-209

Weapons
MURIKUMO (3pow) / H22 (3 pow) / CWA-242 (CIWS) / na / E02 (small CE shield)


While not a great deviation from the original design after a week or so of testing I find that I like the huge generator and am only willing to downgrade to its original gen the GB-114 if I find something that needs to go on the AC in the empty weapon slot. Current testing with the GB-114 and adding an additional weapon has only really resulted in adding a TE tool or a shotgun. The shotgun doesn't seem to do ANYTHING to anyone for any reason, KE weak or no. On a RARE occasion i'll snag about 3k damage a pop. Very rare. If anyone can confirm its just me being retarded I'll give that part another go for a few days and see if there's any positive results. So far it just seems to irritate the enemy instead of doing anything constructive.

Murikumo training has been a mixed bag but I can now regularly (50 / 50) destroy the HWRJ Unac. Lot better than I WAS doing so I feel like progress is being made there.

Booster stays, that thing is beyond helpful despite its drawbacks I cannot stand to be slow.

FCS and BR changed for the BETTER BY FAR. I no longer feel like this AC is doing sub par damage to its opponents. Obviously quads and HWRJ's are still a challenge for me due to the native high CE. However the AC was technically designed to fill a gap in our team with my bro running two TE weapons so Its not as if the team can't support it, the AC standing alone by its own right vs those two types IS a problem. However Adding a Pulse gun and gen swap drop the energy recovery by more than 1k and Im back to abysmal levels of recovery and with how hard I slam that H Boost and E bar I need it. That and to hell with CE shields.

That said I wouldn't be doing my part if i hadn't already came up with an alternate build to post.

Gen / open slot fill:

GB-114 / Kitty (3 pow)

Shield position moved so Kitty and BR are active at same time.

ER drop from 3,400 to 2,000 though a key through shields is given.
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#11 LionelTeo

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:43 AM

HF-227 / CA-309 / AGEMAKI mdl.1 "Alberto Gunther" / NOWAKI mdl.2


Firing stability for the arms is still as bad if you are getting BR. You would want a really high firing stability arms. You would shoot a lot more faster.

I would still recommend CE arms AE 118 for the firing stablity and CE defense.

For legs, I would recommend to try LW legs Le2L-B-V15 instead for better energy drain, turning performance and loading capacity. (But its really ugly)

Fs-L-F03 / MAKIBASHIRA mdl.3 / TOKONATSU


I would suggest to try high acceleration booster BA309 as it requires less energy for glide boosting. The H Boost power and Max Accel time is slightly lower, but in exchange it reach top speed faster on high boosting for dodging and enables you to glide boost away while your energy is low.

BA-309 ca also work with High Output GEN Suzu for easier EN Management.

Current testing with the GB-114 and adding an additional weapon has only really resulted in adding a TE tool or a shotgun.


Get the pulse gun Au-M-31 for power tune.

The shotgun doesn't seem to do ANYTHING to anyone for any reason, KE weak or no. On a RARE occasion i'll snag about 3k damage a pop. Very rare. If anyone can confirm its just me being retarded I'll give that part another go for a few days and see if there's any positive results. So far it just seems to irritate the enemy instead of doing anything constructive.


EDIT: This information is wrong, please see below for the corrected one.

That is because in v1.02, ineffective damage has been nerf to the point to make shotgun hardly viable. This will be change in v1.03 where the ineffective damage will be somewhere between V1.01 and V1.02. V1.01 ineffective damage is too low that even gatling guns hurt due to its high reload time.

From Berzerk Dragon Thread, it seems to me that there is 3 range of damage. Pardon me if I am wrong with the information since the graph are and formula are hard to digest.

The first range is the effective damage, it can hit up 30% more than the weapon damage calculate base from 1.3 defense to 1.0 defense of the target AC armored.

The second range is the semi ineffective damage, it hits about 2/3 of the weapo damage.

The third range is the very ineffective damage, it hits about 1/3 of the weapon damage.

Currently shotguns hits about 1/3 of the weapon damage, even with 1317 shotgun, it does 1317 x 0.33 x (how many bullets hit), so the damage can range from 434 to 2607.

The semi ineffective damage seems to be base on the targeted AC armored, my guess is that for a weapon to hit the semi ineffective damage, it would require a KE weapon damange that land between the range above 75%. This is just a vague guess given that 1.3k shotgun / 1.8 (common KE defense) will give you a value 0.72. and if this value is still doing the very ineffective damage, then a weapon will need to be hitting 1.4 to hit above the 75% benchmark in V1.02. So theorically, a rifle weapon that has a high reload may be doing more damage than a tansy if the weapon is constantly hitting the semi ineffective damage.

In V1.03, my guess is that they had lower this range to 65% to 70%. Since 1.1k machine guns will be hitting below 65% of the KE defense benchmark of common KE defense of 1.8k, while shotgun will hit about 65% to 70% of the common KE benchmark defense of 1.8k, thus fufiling the patch notes summary that indicates that semi ineffective damage is viable for shotguns by not gatling guns.

I am currently running a build that is trying to hit the ineffective damage and see how it goes, but I can't give you any confirmation that its useful, but could worth a try and open to more weapon choices.

Adding a Pulse gun and gen swap drop the energy recovery by more than 1k and Im back to abysmal levels of recovery and with how hard I slam that H Boost and E bar I need it.


I would suggest to try changing the booster, legs and the gen I recommended, it would be possible to fire PGs while keeping up with the energy to HB.
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#12 Not-Hunter

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Just speaking from personal experience on a ton of different lightweights, I hate using shinatsu. (BA-309 now) It has higher speed numbers than other acceleration boosters, but it feels slow, imprecise, and adds a lot of uneccessary drain. Suzumishi is also about to get nerfed, and using suzu/309 restricts your movement options to the ground, limiting you to a very simple set of movement patterns. In the air, the extra capacity and rushing ability of other generator/booster combos allows you to close distance easily and move precisely. I wouldn't recommend it unless you are very bad at EN management.

As for the arms, with the change to 3BRs, this build no longer needs firing stabilty to function. It's not a rushing build or something intended for trading hits, but rather a defensive, supporting lightweight.

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#13 LionelTeo

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:32 AM

(BA-309 now) has a max accel time of 5 with 10k en usage during high boost while TONKO has a max accel time of 8 with 15k en usage during high boost. It looks to me both booster have the same stats with the exception of using more consumption for more accel time. The idea behind BA309 give you the ability to 'bail' out with glide boosting when your energy bar is low, and not to for constant skating on the ground. TONKO on the other hand is unable to help with this.

The air movement your are talking about can be cover with a wall step with HB combination. The ability to chase down and close in target can be done with glide boosting + high boosting, the drain is much more managable as compare to TONKO which you will already be draining while glide boosting. I like TONKO in the aspect of the high accel time which give you some time to recover your energy during HB, to me I see them as a booster to be using in different aspect and you can't really says which is better in stats but rather which feel is better, I will agree with your experince TONKO will give a better feel in movement, BA-309 will give a better feel in energy management, so I leave it to individual to try out to see what works best for them in such case.

The suzu high cap nerf is indeed a good consieration to look into, seems to me its nerf is to aim at hitting dual blader harder but may still work on single PGs, we will see how when the patch come.
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#14 Not-Hunter

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 02:15 AM

What about Shinatsu vs BA-214? 214 is going to get a massive buff soon, with it's booster drain reduced to somewhere near 12k. It has an accel time of 7, better precision in movement, and lower equip drain. Even without the buff, I find 214 to be far more functional.

Within 309 vs TOKONATSU, many people simply consider toko to be a heavier, more powerful version of 309, intended for use on heavier ACs such as quads or HBPs. Toko is considerably less precise than 309, but significantly more powerful at the expense of weight and equip drain.

Also, GB'ing away after attacking is just asking to get shot in the back. I've tried it, it doesn't work unless the enemy is extremely short range'd or completely incapable of giving chase. You're much better off walljumping (to throw off lock) almost exclusively unless the map is absolutely stuffed with cover for you to run behind. As such, the larger distance covered during a 214 or TOKO highboost is much more valuable than a low EN cost, (Can HB once to reach some terrain to jump off of, rather than having to spam HB to reach a wall.) especially since 214 and TOKO already have low EN costs.

On an open map, you don't have the option to walljump, so you need to be able to cover distance quickly, which usually means second-staging. You simply can't second stage reasonably on suzu/309 (which will probably be even more true after the nerf) and still expect to be able to fire some sort of TE weapon once you're within range. Or, if you were able to close the distance, it would take quite a lot longer and require you to follow a much more predictable path. Even with pre-nerf suzu/309, you get a grand total of 3 high boosts before you genbust and either have to stall for regen or retreat.

Pretty much any boosters besides 309 can cover distance more quickly, without necessarily being drainy.

EDIT: As a side note, my belief is that the suzu nerf is aimed at heavy ACs that would fly constantly after you with battle rifles or gatling guns. Most bladers I know use high-cap generators, for maximized rushing ability.

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#15 LionelTeo

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 02:44 AM

What about Shinatsu vs BA-214? 214 is going to get a massive buff soon, with it's booster drain reduced to somewhere near 12k. It has an accel time of 7, better precision in movement, and lower equip drain. Even without the buff, I find 214 to be far more functional


214 is also another viable booster that can be used. It somewhat reminds be it being another TONKONATSU, but I usually overlook it when setting up my ACs.

EDIT: Almost every booster is going to get some buff, but we don't know when.... :(

Also, GB'ing away after attacking is just asking to get shot in the back. I've tried it, it doesn't work unless the enemy is extremely short range'd or completely incapable of giving chase. You're much better off walljumping (to throw off lock) almost exclusively unless the map is absolutely stuffed with cover for you to run behind. As such, the larger distance covered during a 214 or TOKO highboost is much more valuable than a low EN cost, (Can HB once to reach some terrain to jump off of, rather than having to spam HB to reach a wall.) especially since 214 and TOKO already have low EN costs.


I don't see set up is for GB'ing away is for after attacking, but rather, when your energy runs low or when your being flank you can GB away behind the cover. If you or a player can overcome this with EN Management with your current set up, then BA 309 will not be useful in this sense.

Even with pre-nerf suzu/309, you get a grand total of 3 high boosts before you genbust and either have to stall for regen or retreat.


For a lightweight you won't gen burst with Suzu, you can use PGs with BA-309 constantly HB in the air switching between scan and combat mode.

EDIT: As a side note, my belief is that the suzu nerf is aimed at heavy ACs that would fly constantly after you with battle rifles or gatling guns. Most bladers I know use high-cap generators, for maximized rushing ability.


I haven't seen any heavy ACs needed to resort that to win, most I played against utilize wall jumps and pilot them like a mid weight, for bladers I see a mix of high cap and low gens. So far in FB I saw only 1 high cap actually, not sure about CQing though.
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#16 Not-Hunter

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:00 AM

I wouldn't recommend it unless you are very bad at EN management.

That's basically my point. It's functional, but it's outclassed by other booster/generators once you learn how to use them, and they're not particularly difficult to learn if you're already used to moving around without spamming HB everywhere.

I've played a lightweight with suzu, it seems so sluggish now in comparison to my others. Suzu/309 isn't exactly slow, bad, wrong, or dumb on a lightweight, but they pale in comparison to the fluid, extremely quick movement you can get with other combinations.

That's my honest opinion, and I really don't want people to get used to the feel of 309 and think that it's all there is to playing a light AC. There's much, much more.

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#17 LionelTeo

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:28 AM

From Berzerk Dragon Thread, it seems to me that there is 3 range of damage. Pardon me if I am wrong with the information since the graph are and formula are hard to digest.

The first range is the effective damage, it can hit up 30% more than the weapon damage calculate base from 1.3 defense to 1.0 defense of the target AC armored.

The second range is the semi ineffective damage, it hits about 2/3 of the weapo damage.

The third range is the very ineffective damage, it hits about 1/3 of the weapon damage.

Currently shotguns hits about 1/3 of the weapon damage, even with 1317 shotgun, it does 1317 x 0.33 x (how many bullets hit), so the damage can range from 434 to 2607.

The semi ineffective damage seems to be base on the targeted AC armored, my guess is that for a weapon to hit the semi ineffective damage, it would require a KE weapon damange that land between the range above 75%. This is just a vague guess given that 1.3k shotgun / 1.8 (common KE defense) will give you a value 0.72. and if this value is still doing the very ineffective damage, then a weapon will need to be hitting 1.4 to hit above the 75% benchmark in V1.02. So theorically, a rifle weapon that has a high reload may be doing more damage than a tansy if the weapon is constantly hitting the semi ineffective damage.

In V1.03, my guess is that they had lower this range to 65% to 70%. Since 1.1k machine guns will be hitting below 65% of the KE defense benchmark of common KE defense of 1.8k, while shotgun will hit about 65% to 70% of the common KE benchmark defense of 1.8k, thus fufiling the patch notes summary that indicates that semi ineffective damage is viable for shotguns by not gatling guns.

I am currently running a build that is trying to hit the ineffective damage and see how it goes, but I can't give you any confirmation that its useful, but could worth a try and open to more weapon choices.


After re-reading Berzek Dragon thread, I got the idea behind the damage formula.

Pardon for the previous misinformation, here is the correct one. However, I think it is outdated and applies to pre V1.02. :?

1st damage type: Def X 1.3 < Power; Weapon attack power is more than 1.3 times than target defense, weapon will do up to full damage.

Example: Tansy will do full damage of 1784 if targeted AC if only target AC defense is 1372 KE or below

2nd damage type: def x 1.3 > Power > def 1.0; Weapon attack power is less than 1.3 times of defense, but still more than defense, weapon shot will do between 2/3 to full damage.

Example: Tansy will do 1189 damage to a target that has a defense of 1783 at optimal range (2/3 of full damage).

3rd damage type: Power < def; Weapon will do attack power of 1/3 when it is less than defense.

Tansy will only do 588 KE damage when it is less than targeted defense.

EDIT: I check the topic again and it isn't linear, seems like it hits the most 70%. This are just bad number crunching, need some more work or free time. Refer to Berzerk Dragon thread for more details.
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#18 Maker

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

Update, went with the model with the GB-114 and Kitty behind the blade (shields needed to be dealt with apparently)

Tried booster swap with gen, no go. suzu doesn't suit me and especialy since the speed goes down so much. I have mids that are faster than that. Also I already use boost jumps from buildings to move when available. Again Tokonatsu + High cap stays. May be a bad call on my part but they seem to do what I need when I need.

At any rate I feel the need to get this thing "future-proofed" so if there is any problem with this design that may get "patched" into it I want to know about its current setup.

all that really changed was energy recovery from 3,400+ to 2,000. But so far its proved manageable.

I'm also thrilled to get all his feedback coming in. I'll make sure to keep an eye on shotguns and pulse guns as I go forward. I tried the Knuckle (3 pow) and the high damage model. While they work okay they don't give the security the PMG does for range when its out.
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#19 Not-Hunter

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:46 AM

At any rate I feel the need to get this thing "future-proofed" so if there is any problem with this design that may get "patched" into it I want to know about its current setup.


To my knowledge, nothing on this build is really going to be affected in future patches.
Sniper Rifles are getting buffed.
Heat Cannon WAs are getting buffed.
Short range CE missiles are getting buffed. (Which could be really dangerous for this build if they become popular)
VTFs (And plasma missiles too, I believe) are getting buffed.
Shiobune and the smallest 'sawa are getting buffed. (Also could be dangerous, and a PMG alternative)
Amps are getting nerfed.
Ineffective damage (Shotguns, gatlings, rifles) is getting buffed.
Tansy is getting buffed.
Some pulse guns are getting accuracy nerfed.
HMGs are having weight reduced.
Laser blades are having weight reduced.

That's about all the noteworthy stuff I can remember. I'll have to dig through the part change lists to find anything else.

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#20 Ibram Gaunt

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:50 PM

Personally I ditched Suzunatsu Combo entirely. Simply for the speed factor. Sure your EN Regen was extremely high, but since I prefer Laserrifles, the 32.000 EN Capacity (Soon to be nerfed to 22.000) Simply is not enough.

Now if even remotely possible I try to use the G23 Engine (Ho Vital) or, if it is too heavy, I found that the P10 engine can be good too (At least it is for my purposes). I experimented with the P10 for a while now, and it is a solid choice if you need a lightweight, high EN regen Engine. Boosterwise my primary booster became the Dafeng, in rare cases the burya. Toko is too heavy currently for my purposes (maybe that will change with Patches, since its weight will be reduced also).
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